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[Music]

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so

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[Music]

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so

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hello and welcome to the show everyone

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i'm martin willis your host and we have

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a great show for you this evening

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we have first of all we have ben hanson

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coming up he'll be on in just a minute

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and he's going to be talking about

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discovery pluses is how you say that

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discovery plus is new siri

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series it's called ufo witness um he's

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starring in that

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uh series it's a great one i

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can't believe some of the people they've

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had on that show i

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was lucky enough to see the screener but

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you can see it too

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i've been a cable cutter since i don't

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know way back 2011 or 12 or

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something like that i guess they call

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them cable cutters i haven't had cable

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tv

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i have roku and i just discovered that

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you can get

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the discovery plus is

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only 4.99 a month you can add that to

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your roku in this

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series is on it just for that alone um

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i got it myself today and 6.99 if you

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didn't want to watch any commercials

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so check that out now uh ben

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is a former federal agent we've talked

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about that before when he's been on

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uh he was an fbi agent um he's got a an

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amazing

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uh background we will talk a little bit

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about that and about the show

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and witnesses and uh all the the cases

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that he

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we won't do any spoilers um if you

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haven't seen it we won't we'll try to

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stay away from that

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but one of the um episodes has calvin

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parker

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and they go into the pascagoula

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abduction incident

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well calvin will be on in about

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40 minutes into the show and he's going

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to remain on the show

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ben is going to say goodbye at the top

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of the hour we have

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a really great uh song that we're going

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to be playing

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during the break and it's called black

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water blue moon

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the calvin parker story and that's by

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johnny cobb

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and jerry mccoy so that's going to play

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right at the top of the hour

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and uh it's a great song and oh blog

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this week

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so we have a blog from charles lear

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uh as usual and this one is a great one

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i'd love to have someone talk

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about this particular incident i think

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it was 1965 or so

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and the title of the blog is a ufo

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humanoids

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and robots near cisco grove california

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if you've never heard of the cisco grove

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case

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it's really amazing it looks like these

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uh

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creatures were this guy climbed a tree

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he was hunting climbed a tree

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tried to get away from them and a couple

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of them

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looked like these hooded figures

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they were down at the bottom of the tree

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trying to get up and then this robot

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came and uh and sent like vapor up that

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knocked him out it's an incredible story

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and uh oh next week just let you know we

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have miguel

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romero from red red pill junkie he's

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gonna be our guest next week

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and for now i will bring the one and

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only

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ben hanson into the show welcome ben

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welcome how are you doing oh welcome

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hey ben we're not seeing your your

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camera i'm not sure what's going on uh

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i see you let me let me let me try it

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again

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very strange i can see you down below

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with the camera can you turn your camera

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off and on again please

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yeah let's let's try that hold on one

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second you'll see a little stop cam down

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at the bottom

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try that and turn it on there you are

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you're fuzzy but you're there

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okay how's that am i still there

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i can see you yes you're a little blurry

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but that's fine

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you're there we know you're there uh ben

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thanks so much for being on the show

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again

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it's always uh i always love uh uh

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hanging out with you at the conferences

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and things like that here

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a lot of fun and uh got to meet your

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your family last time

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that's right yeah that was uh what

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contact in the desert

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no that was uh 2019

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phoenix oh okay yeah yeah every every

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now and then i have

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uh i get my mom or someone to come along

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and

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little one

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at the time oh okay yeah yeah that was

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the the kid now that is a huge

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he looks like a four-year-old he's only

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two and a half though

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wow wow uh well your camera's froze but

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uh you may want to

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try that stop cam one more time and and

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try it out and see what happens

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but uh so then for the person who's

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well it's a picture of you and that

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that's better than nothing

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so uh ben for the person who's never

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heard you on my

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uh show uh before can you just quickly

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give a background and

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what got you interested in the ufo topic

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well um yeah ufos have have kind of been

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for for people have kind of followed or

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not all what i've done

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uh on tv a lot of uh

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ghost hunting paranormal shows um i kind

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of joke that

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recently i've been appearing kind of

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like your next door neighbor making

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cameos

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like in every show yeah that's right

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i appear in uh you know a lot of bigfoot

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stuff

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and everything but my show on sci-fi uh

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fact or faked what went into all sorts

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of things from mermaids to leprechauns

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to whatever

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um but it all really began with ufos for

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me

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i was like five years old when um

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when et first came out and so i had this

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love of

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of uh the movies and hollywood

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and alien shows and then that led me um

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to cutting out newspaper clippings and

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you know a lot of kids were interested

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in space i was too but

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but especially like um life forms and

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the possibility

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of that and and uh i couldn't get enough

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of it so

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like a lot of um you know passions in

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life i kind of had to put it away

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uh get down to my schoolwork uh wordy

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it wasn't really a thing you talked

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about ufos because people make fun of

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you

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and uh later on in life i i found myself

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i guess re-interested in in the topic

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and um i went to school

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um through how through high school

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deciding at that point that i wanted to

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join

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um some sort of investigation agency

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and so my degree in college was geared

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towards that i did

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criminology sociology

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and then worked for several years

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investigating some nasty stuff

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child sex crimes and severe physical

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abuse but

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um it gave me the experience of talking

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to

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thousands and thousands of witnesses of

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really bad stuff sometimes it's really

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dramatic and hard for people to talk

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about

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so when people ask me well what what do

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you think like

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your background provided you in ufo

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investigations and i say that's probably

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the key thing

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you don't have to have a background

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criminology

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you don't have to work for some of the

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agencies i did you know like at the

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state and in federal for the fbi

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but um having that curiosity

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and the objectivity because i see a lot

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of that now where

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where even i have to check myself you

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know if you've seen a lot and you've

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heard a lot of stuff

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you're inclined perhaps to see

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vague evidence to support your own

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biases now

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and um you kind of have to check

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yourself and and remain objective

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um no matter who you're talking to um

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and so i still

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like you'll see me on the tv shows like

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right taking notes

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that's just a habit that i do because i

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kind of approached the case as if i had

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to go to court with it

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you know and um i don't write up you

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know

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full-on reports anymore like i used to

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but

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um i still do see it as an evidentiary

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kind of discovery process

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sure and you you get to you and i have

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had this conversation before

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you get to learn people and with your

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training

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i know that one of the things that

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you've really looked into is you can

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uh see the telltales if someone's

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telling the truth

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or not i'm actually taking a course on

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that

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right now it's really fascinating just

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the little clues

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that people will give you accidentally

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like maybe if they'll look

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up to their left or you know all these

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different things um you can you can say

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you can tell if they're looking uh at

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something they're picturing or

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remembering um that so how does that

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work for you has that helped you also

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when you're interviewing people

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uh in the ufo field

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yeah it definitely has um the

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the thing with nonverbal communication

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most of it what we do is nonverbal

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you know they say 70 to 80 percent and

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so

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you it's both a habit you can form but

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it's also

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um it's got to be deliberate like like i

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i could sit in a conversation with

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somebody

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and just kind of get an uneasy feeling

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like i don't i don't know that i'm

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buying what they're telling me

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but you really do have to methodically

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look for certain things and break it

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down maybe even after the fact

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and so when when you go through law

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enforcement training

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it's typically why why you videotape an

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interview

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and the second person is in the other

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room watching for these things not just

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what they're saying but they're looking

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for the cues

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looking for stuff that doesn't mesh up

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and so it is

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there is a science to it but it's not

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exact we there's no

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sure way to tell someone's lying but we

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can tell

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a lot of times they're uncomfortable if

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they're stressed

284
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:04,880
and so to be areas to further explore

285
00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:05,279
and

286
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:08,320
um did become sort of a hobby of mine

287
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:11,440
is a lot of the books that i read are in

288
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:13,200
fact like this whole section over here

289
00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:15,200
is all about

290
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:17,519
you know non-verbal communication and

291
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:18,480
deceptions

292
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,360
and um it can be very helpful when

293
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:23,120
you're talking to people

294
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,959
ben do you ever i know it's totally off

295
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:26,480
topic here but do you ever think

296
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:27,760
there'll be a day when

297
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:31,680
there'll be a 100 percent certainty

298
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:35,440
as far as uh lie detection um and if so

299
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,040
how powerful would that be and would

300
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:39,279
that change everything

301
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:42,480
uh probably not 100 certainty i mean

302
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:43,120
because

303
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:44,800
when we're getting down into looking at

304
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:46,640
fmri scans

305
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:48,240
and and putting people in these machines

306
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:49,440
and they see different parts of their

307
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,560
brain light up

308
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:52,320
they think that is a closer

309
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,000
representation

310
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:56,800
but because people process information

311
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:57,440
differently

312
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:01,360
again we're probably only able to say

313
00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:03,120
they're more stressed about this we

314
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,560
don't know why

315
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,720
plus you have people with different

316
00:12:11,269 --> 00:12:08,399
psychological makeups

317
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,279
sociopaths for example they don't react

318
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:13,360
the same way when they tell a lie

319
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:16,880
as a normal person would you know and so

320
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,920
um i mean you're probably

321
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:21,279
getting into the minority report

322
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,760
remember that movie with tom cruise

323
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:26,160
and it's like telling someone lying

324
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:28,160
right maybe we can predict if they're

325
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:29,600
about to commit a crime too

326
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:32,160
because you know they're intense and and

327
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,519
that would be kind of freaky because

328
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,200
then we're putting people in the prison

329
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:37,440
for crimes that haven't committed yet or

330
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:39,279
lies they haven't told yet

331
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:42,320
you know yeah really sci-fi

332
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:44,079
and i know you know our guest coming up

333
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,519
uh uh

334
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,440
you know charles hickson i know after

335
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:48,959
the pascagoula incident

336
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,160
he took a uh he passed a

337
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,959
uh lie detector test and you know the

338
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:56,480
critics were saying something like you

339
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,200
know he

340
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,040
that person that performed the test

341
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,959
wasn't that experienced or whatever so

342
00:13:04,829 --> 00:13:02,160
we can't rely on that

343
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:04,839
but are they somewhat reliable in

344
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,279
general a polygraph

345
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:09,760
yeah um and we ran into the same thing

346
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:11,920
with the travis walton case and i talk a

347
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:14,160
lot about that his documentary

348
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,560
um on a bad day okay a bad day if you

349
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,880
give any validity to the polygraph

350
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:22,320
you're talking about

351
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,360
um an 80 percent they say the white

352
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:27,040
paper studies have shown that it's about

353
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:27,760
80

354
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:30,160
accurate and on a good day they say as

355
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,000
much as 95 percent

356
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,639
i i don't know about that but you're

357
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:36,560
within that range the problem of the

358
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:37,279
polygraph

359
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:41,360
is it convicts or says that more people

360
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:44,240
are lying than not lying

361
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:47,199
so you get a lot more what would that be

362
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:48,240
a negative

363
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,040
not a false positive but false negative

364
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:52,800
i think is how it would work

365
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:56,320
so at any rate that's why a lot of

366
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:58,880
truth tellers get caught up as being

367
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:00,880
liars in a polygraph

368
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:03,519
but the other way around somebody who's

369
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:06,240
telling it would be harder for a liar

370
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:09,040
to be passed as telling the truth if

371
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:10,560
that makes sense

372
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:15,040
so it airs more on the side of favoring

373
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:18,240
the truth tellers i'm sorry the liars

374
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:21,199
um as opposed to the other way around so

375
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:23,440
there is some validity i think

376
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,920
but the reason it's not accepted in most

377
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:27,279
states

378
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,399
uh in court is because um

379
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:32,160
there's there's just too much of an

380
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:34,000
error factor and so it's used more as a

381
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:36,160
tool for them to say hey

382
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,000
let's ask this person more questions

383
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:40,480
about this topic and it's in its uh

384
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,880
corroborating evidence rather than like

385
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:44,720
just direct

386
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:47,440
you know this is true or not and so it

387
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:48,160
is helpful

388
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:51,279
and and um what would was the most

389
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:51,920
helpful is

390
00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:54,959
if you take more than one witness and

391
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,920
you have them tested multiple times the

392
00:15:02,470 --> 00:14:59,519
compounding

393
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,480
um statistical evidence of it is

394
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:03,839
incredible and that's what happened in

395
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,440
travis walton's case

396
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:08,160
yeah seven seven crew members and they

397
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:11,279
all take it and pass it multiple times

398
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:12,800
if you believe in the paragraph at all

399
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,800
the chances they're lying is one in

400
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:16,399
millions if not billions

401
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:19,920
wow wow that's yeah isn't that something

402
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:20,480
up

403
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,000
uh dave altman says hi to you oh hey

404
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:26,480
yeah crazy dave they call him right dave

405
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:28,000
he'll love that i said that

406
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:31,199
um so let's let's talk about the show

407
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:34,000
now i i believe you told me and by the

408
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:36,079
way your camera works about once every

409
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:39,680
30 seconds or so oh man

410
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:42,880
but we know you're there um so

411
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:45,759
did you tell me oh maybe a few years ago

412
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,560
that this

413
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:48,000
you were getting involved in the show

414
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:49,519
you said i can't tell you what it is but

415
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:50,240
it's

416
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:53,759
this was this show you were talking

417
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,480
about

418
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,560
yeah it probably was because we filmed

419
00:16:03,030 --> 00:15:58,399
most of the ufo witness

420
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:03,040
starting in november of 2019

421
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:06,720
yeah um we got to about february march

422
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,279
2020 and then kovid shut us down

423
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:13,519
we got back in there june and july and

424
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:15,120
finished up so yeah

425
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:18,399
it's been well over a year now yeah wow

426
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,720
and so you wrapped up the season

427
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:23,120
basically in june and july

428
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:27,279
yeah we we had um some very uh

429
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,880
um restrictive measures that we had to

430
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:32,560
follow to to finish up

431
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:35,600
you know back east and we were lucky

432
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:38,160
enough to be able to do that because

433
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:42,240
um it it's you know like it's been such

434
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:43,199
a journey

435
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:46,000
putting the whole thing together and you

436
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:47,199
know the way that they

437
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:50,720
um typically film is you'll do a season

438
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,160
of something and within about three or

439
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,240
four months it starts airing

440
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:56,880
right and so this one was such a longer

441
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,600
process

442
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:59,600
that a lot of us were just wondering

443
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:00,880
okay well you know

444
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,279
what where is it going to to finally

445
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:04,720
show up

446
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:07,039
we have so many great stories to tell so

447
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,559
many things that are left we want to get

448
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:10,079
to these ones

449
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,919
but as networks go you know we got to

450
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:13,360
wait and see how this airs and how it

451
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,039
does but we're ready to go for

452
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:17,760
uh season two i mean i'm not announcing

453
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,240
it

454
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:20,160
and not by any means i'm just we're

455
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:21,439
ready we we have

456
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:24,640
so much uh the response on this

457
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:27,520
from the media um and and from the

458
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,919
viewers has been amazing

459
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:31,600
i'd like to talk about some of the

460
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,039
episodes and some of the great

461
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:35,360
witnesses that you have but i i also

462
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:37,039
want to be careful not to

463
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:40,240
you know spoil it for someone so we just

464
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:42,000
have to and i'm sure you realize that

465
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:44,000
too uh so we have to

466
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:46,960
treat it kind of delicately but um one

467
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:47,760
of the people

468
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,640
um i want to say uh jenny and it's as i

469
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:52,400
i'm trying to remember her last name

470
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,160
from luke uh-huh simon uh-huh

471
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,400
yeah uh that was awesome and i i

472
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:00,880
understand that she passed away right

473
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:03,760
she did and uh just on your other note

474
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,720
the network has

475
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,880
has told me we can get we can get into

476
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:08,640
uh some in-depth stuff on the episodes

477
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:09,520
if you want

478
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:10,880
i'm not gonna you know give away any

479
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:12,240
everything but we can talk about what

480
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:13,440
they're about

481
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:16,480
kind of some discoveries that's fine um

482
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:19,600
jenny zeidman yes was she was

483
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:22,640
a personal assistant and filled um

484
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,919
investigator with jalen heineck project

485
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:27,600
blue book and so

486
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:30,400
try remember she was 80 don't remember

487
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:31,440
84

488
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:34,559
or 87 she was up there in years

489
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:37,120
and um she hadn't ever really come

490
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:38,799
forward and talked about

491
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,280
um the the inner conversations

492
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,840
and dealings with heinek and and her her

493
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:47,520
time at blue book

494
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:50,320
so we were lucky enough um to be able to

495
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:51,280
connect with her

496
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:53,120
through mark o'connell who wrote a

497
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:55,039
biography on heinek

498
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:59,039
and um so i it was unfortunate i really

499
00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:00,640
wish we had more time with her but we

500
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,600
were

501
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:04,320
probably a couple months into it and uh

502
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,960
she got

503
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:07,200
sick pretty quickly and then she passed

504
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:08,240
and

505
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:11,679
these

506
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,080
um people who are i mean we've only got

507
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:16,559
a few witnesses left to roswell

508
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,760
you know before we leave right and so

509
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,200
many people that it's kind of like

510
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:24,320
you're hoping some of these uh there she

511
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:25,440
is yeah

512
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:28,640
we're hoping that some of the

513
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:32,240
um military officials those who are

514
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:33,600
involved in some of these

515
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:36,559
these earlier incidents were hoping that

516
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:37,280
before

517
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:40,640
they also

518
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:44,000
will disclose um and some of that's some

519
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:46,000
of the most powerful testimony

520
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:48,640
why would you lie to your own children

521
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,520
and to people

522
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,120
about these things knowing that you're

523
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,760
going to be leaving this world soon

524
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,600
and like in the case of my grandfather

525
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,840
it's like that's why deathbed

526
00:20:04,149 --> 00:19:59,039
confessions

527
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:05,990
latitude you know when it comes to the

528
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:08,559
law and and what they allow in court

529
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:11,840
because of that circumstance

530
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:13,679
absolutely and i would like to talk a

531
00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:15,520
little bit about your grandfather

532
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:18,159
and and your father but uh before we get

533
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,880
there

534
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:20,880
something you just touched on and that

535
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,720
is up i remember the

536
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:25,280
gentleman's name was mark and his father

537
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:25,919
was

538
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,039
in the military and he

539
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:31,440
and he had those documents when it came

540
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:32,559
to

541
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:35,760
he actually said that his father uh

542
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:39,440
told his children that he saw aliens

543
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:42,480
when it came to the roswell crash

544
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:45,520
can you talk about that yeah

545
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,280
so i was thinking about this today

546
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,520
because um every now and then

547
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,200
and and i don't like bantering on

548
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:53,840
twitter facebook but

549
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:57,440
um i do appreciate skeptical um

550
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,039
you know um perspectives and

551
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,280
i i consider myself skeptical but what i

552
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:05,600
mean is there's a gentleman on there

553
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:06,960
i was talking about the recent

554
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,600
disclosure that happened um

555
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,240
with uh tony bergalia and and the foia

556
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:14,320
request that he got back

557
00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:17,440
and uh someone jumped in there and in

558
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:18,320
the exchange

559
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,360
said well there's none of this is proven

560
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:23,520
there's absolutely no evidence

561
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:26,640
that the government has debris um or

562
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,000
that this is alien

563
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:30,880
and i thought about mark magruder i said

564
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:33,200
wait i don't have time to debate this

565
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:35,120
but if you care to know is what i was

566
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,520
thinking if you care to look into this

567
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:39,760
look at examples like mark magruder

568
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:42,240
whose dad was a decorated world war ii

569
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,600
pilot and in the episode that you're

570
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:47,039
referring to i think is episode number

571
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:48,240
two

572
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:51,520
or five five um

573
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:54,720
before he died uh he sat down with his

574
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,760
sons

575
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:57,280
and started to tell them about the

576
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,880
second career that he had in the

577
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:00,400
military a second

578
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:03,840
sort of secret um you know role that he

579
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:04,799
had

580
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:06,480
and he was invited to what's called the

581
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:10,960
air work so this is 1948.

582
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,360
okay roswell happened in the summer 47

583
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:16,000
so the spring of 48.

584
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,679
he's invited back to wright-patterson

585
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,440
air force base they took a lot of these

586
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:21,679
high-ranking

587
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,000
officers colonels i think it was a

588
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,880
colonel at the time and

589
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,799
they wanted their opinion on what they

590
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:30,400
called the problem this

591
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:33,760
the situation i think is what it was

592
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:35,679
and they showed them to bring debris

593
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:36,799
from roswell

594
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:40,640
so there you have

595
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:43,280
confirmation the government yes did take

596
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,080
the debris

597
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:46,400
not not a weather balloon he handled the

598
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:47,440
debris

599
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:50,480
he handled the the whole of the craft

600
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:52,159
they were told came from roswell

601
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,240
he rocked it back and forth they had it

602
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,000
there on the ground

603
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:58,720
um and he saw at least two different

604
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,520
occupants

605
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:01,440
that one was dead and the other was

606
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:03,039
still alive

607
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:06,559
and his description was it was similar

608
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,440
humanoid but it was definitely not human

609
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:10,880
and and so

610
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,520
he goes on and on over the couple months

611
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,760
left of his life and tells his kids as

612
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,280
they're asking him questions and

613
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,960
sometimes he would answer sometimes he'd

614
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:20,559
be vague

615
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:23,039
but why would you do why would you lie

616
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:24,159
to your kids

617
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,919
about something like this he he felt

618
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,600
like he needed to maintain his oath he

619
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:30,240
wasn't gonna go tell the world about it

620
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:33,360
but um you know it's world war ii

621
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:36,159
heroes and people who are in that era

622
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:36,559
that

623
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:39,600
um are coming out have come out

624
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:42,480
have discussed this and we think that

625
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,960
for

626
00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:44,880
you know of course roswell probably was

627
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:46,400
one of those key

628
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,200
keystone moments where um the government

629
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:51,679
really became involved

630
00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:54,000
right right and you know you just

631
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:54,799
mentioned

632
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:58,400
um witnesses are there any

633
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,520
there was one or two witnesses left from

634
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:03,360
roswell right and you didn't get to

635
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:04,960
interview

636
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:07,039
i mean are they still available to

637
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:08,159
interview

638
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:10,240
i think i've i've spoken on another

639
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,640
project uh through don schmidt

640
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:15,120
who connected us it was uh i think that

641
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:18,400
was part of the the cw

642
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:20,960
show that we did i was able to meet one

643
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:22,080
of the uh

644
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:25,600
the last witnesses um

645
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:28,159
i i want to say oh gosh her name escapes

646
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:30,400
me uh

647
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:34,480
it's not freddie i can't remember

648
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,760
my sorry but she uh was a child at the

649
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:39,360
time her dad was

650
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:43,520
um a uh i think he was the fire

651
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:46,240
department like a chief battalion he was

652
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:46,880
he was

653
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:49,679
or if not the chief of roswell fire

654
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:51,120
department

655
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,559
and he responded to the crash wreckage

656
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,960
he uh snuck away some of the pieces of

657
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,080
it

658
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,400
and then was able to show his family and

659
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,000
brought it back to them and so

660
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:04,559
when word of this reached um the

661
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:05,760
military base

662
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,880
and they started sending people out to

663
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:10,880
tie up the loose ends

664
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:14,240
they got a visit from i think he was an

665
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:16,880
intelligence officer stationed there

666
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,279
and he he separated her from her family

667
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:23,760
took her to the other room threatened

668
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:25,279
her

669
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:27,279
basically said hey if you talk about

670
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:28,960
what you saw and what your dad brought

671
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:29,520
home

672
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,840
you'll never see your family again we'll

673
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:33,440
take you out to the desert and leave you

674
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:34,960
or kill you

675
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:38,159
so she must have only been i think like

676
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:39,840
six seven years old that's what i was

677
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:41,919
remembering you

678
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:44,960
yeah and she was in tears okay telling

679
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,520
this story after so many years

680
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:49,760
to hear her tell the story and still

681
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:50,640
have the

682
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:54,480
terror that emotional impact

683
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:58,000
okay from a little child it i mean and

684
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,559
and this

685
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,480
intelligence officer probably didn't

686
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:02,000
like doing that

687
00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:04,720
but it was his job and he felt like this

688
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:05,679
was such of

689
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:08,400
national importance that they had to go

690
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:10,080
to such extremes

691
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,760
so that has to tell you something if

692
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:13,840
they're willing to threaten

693
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:16,240
kids that they're going to kill them or

694
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:18,080
their families

695
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:19,840
this was no joke it wasn't a weather

696
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:22,400
balloon wasn't any of the things the air

697
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:24,799
force officially says it was

698
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,520
so uh she was one of the last ones i

699
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:29,840
don't know if she's still alive

700
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,640
but now you only have kids of you know

701
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,320
or grandkids

702
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:36,320
really of most of the witnesses that

703
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:38,400
that are still around

704
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,400
right and roswell is so confusing to me

705
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,559
you know there's so many elements that

706
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:46,080
are mysterious

707
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:48,799
um in you know one of them and i've had

708
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:49,120
a

709
00:27:02,870 --> 00:26:59,360
burger type of thing but

710
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:02,880
um there's so many things about it

711
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:05,200
that are big question marks for me first

712
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,400
of all the thing i

713
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:08,159
say when i talk to a skeptic about that

714
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,520
why would they

715
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,440
even put it out there that the army air

716
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:13,520
force you know captured a

717
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,760
disc i mean there was no reason for them

718
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:16,640
to put that

719
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:19,679
out there in the in the press to begin

720
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:22,080
with i mean just that alone

721
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,320
and and the skeptics have said something

722
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,919
well it's better that then

723
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,679
let them look at that and think about

724
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:29,279
that instead of

725
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:31,840
the mogul you know that was put up to

726
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:33,279
spy in russian

727
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,880
you know nuclear development you know

728
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:37,039
they didn't have the the machine in

729
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,919
place yet

730
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,840
and what i mean by that i see the

731
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:40,960
comments people

732
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,880
reminding me thank you it was frankie

733
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,360
freddy i said freddie it's frankie rowe

734
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:47,039
and it looks like she did pass away in

735
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:48,559
97

736
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:52,880
or 2017. yeah they didn't have the uh

737
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:56,080
the machine work of disclo uh

738
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:57,679
deniability and

739
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:01,120
um cover-up in place and and

740
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:03,520
you know like people get a conspiracy

741
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:04,640
conspiracy look

742
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:06,320
it was so much easier to pull off a

743
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,240
conspiracy back then why

744
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:10,559
because i think we had more of a trust

745
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:11,600
for a government

746
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,120
absolutely nobody really questioned

747
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,919
you know like and if there was a lie

748
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,720
people believe

749
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,720
that well the government has to do

750
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,320
certain things but we trust the people

751
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:24,159
who are doing it

752
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,200
and and so you didn't have many leaks

753
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:29,039
you didn't have many people coming out

754
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:29,679
that

755
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,120
especially if you're threatening people

756
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:32,880
in their lives

757
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:35,679
it wasn't until the story broke in the

758
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:36,399
80s

759
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:38,480
you know stan friedman and the roswell

760
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,520
story

761
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,600
it wasn't really until then that people

762
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,120
felt comfortable

763
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:45,039
they could actually start coming out and

764
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:46,640
talking about this because they thought

765
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:48,159
there was a moratorium and that they

766
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:49,760
would lose their livelihood their

767
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:50,799
pensions

768
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:54,000
they would be killed and and so it took

769
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,840
a long time

770
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,000
for that to stop and so when you have a

771
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:00,480
press release that comes out immediately

772
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:03,679
and says yep got a ufo i

773
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,640
i don't think that the people making the

774
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:08,320
press releases thought that it was wrong

775
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,919
to say that

776
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:12,320
that that summer was filled with ufo

777
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,360
sightings

778
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:15,600
you know you had you had some in arizona

779
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:18,399
you had some alleged crashes you had

780
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:23,360
you know um uh the uh

781
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:26,559
uh gosh kevin arnold um

782
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:33,190
yeah now you got me

783
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:36,399
arnold yes it was his last name

784
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,000
in the northwest yeah gosh what

785
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:42,720
it's both of us it's contagious i want

786
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:44,159
to i wanted to say keith arnold but

787
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:45,360
that's not it

788
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:46,799
somebody's going to jump in here it's

789
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,029
yeah okay so um

790
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:57,200
thank you kenneth i was so close i was

791
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:58,799
so close kenneth yeah thank you

792
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,159
sorry i i just talk about that too from

793
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:04,240
his daughter so anyways

794
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:07,360
uh keith arnold um

795
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:10,000
kenneth so anyways that whole summer

796
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,600
leading up to it

797
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:14,000
there was a lot of hysteria about ufos

798
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:15,840
to begin with and so

799
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:20,159
when uh somebody you know like iran

800
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:22,080
shows into town and says i found this

801
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:23,679
weird thing

802
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:26,000
and the the public relations officer

803
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,000
goes out with them and they

804
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,320
um you know they check this out and then

805
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:32,320
all of a sudden it's like well

806
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:34,640
i don't think even that they made that

807
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,720
decision on their own higher-ups had to

808
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:38,000
approve it

809
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,159
but i don't think anyone thought hey

810
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,480
maybe we shouldn't say anything

811
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,240
they were all caught up in the emotion i

812
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:46,960
was like yeah tell the world we got one

813
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:48,320
all right what's wrong with that this

814
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:50,000
information belongs to us all we

815
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:54,559
have made contact and it wasn't until

816
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:57,440
after the fact you know when the debris

817
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:57,919
gets

818
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:01,120
over to uh to texas um or was it

819
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,240
it made a couple stops kansas texas

820
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:06,720
where they put the quash on it and say

821
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:07,760
whoa hey

822
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:11,039
uh uh uh you know and we have witnesses

823
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:11,679
that

824
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:13,840
say they saw the evidence it was

825
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:14,960
switched out with

826
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:18,399
where the real debris went so when

827
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:20,320
somebody tells me there's no evidence

828
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:22,240
that the government has

829
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:25,840
ufo debris they just haven't looked

830
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:28,559
at all anything that we we have

831
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:31,919
available to us as far as witnesses go

832
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,080
i don't know what they want do they want

833
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:36,000
it actually in an official government

834
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,080
document well we've got those two

835
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:40,320
look at john greenwald and you know what

836
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:42,159
he's turning up right now with the cia

837
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,760
archives

838
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,559
the government has debris from so-called

839
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:49,120
ufos now is it alien

840
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,880
that's where we we do have to make these

841
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:52,559
implications

842
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:55,440
um based on witness testimony based on

843
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,519
the people who were there who saw it

844
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,120
what do you want them to do come out

845
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:01,440
with the official government statement

846
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,559
the debris you know came from an alien

847
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:06,480
creature that we have here it's in the

848
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:08,000
the possession of the united they're not

849
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,600
going to do that

850
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,200
that's that's where the machine went to

851
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:16,310
right right um we have a question up

852
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:17,360
there

853
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,480
idea where the roswell wreckage might be

854
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:25,440
right now and that's uh that'll be all

855
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:26,559
speculative

856
00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:32,240
i i okay at the risk of being attacked

857
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:38,870
um the the book the day after roswell

858
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:41,200
is a great book to read okay it's by

859
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:42,720
philip corso

860
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,440
um and and william burns you know from

861
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:47,120
ufo hunters now

862
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:51,279
before uh corso died he claimed that he

863
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:53,120
didn't get to proofread the whole book

864
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:53,679
and that

865
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:57,519
bill burns know put most of the stuff in

866
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:58,480
there

867
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:02,240
problem is we don't know where now

868
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:05,360
philip corso did work for the pentagon

869
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:06,080
he worked in

870
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:09,600
research and development for the

871
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,120
army primarily believe and his

872
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:15,200
theory which he claims he was a part of

873
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,159
actually

874
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,960
was to take the material from roswell

875
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:20,000
and start

876
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:22,720
um distributing it outsourcing it to

877
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:23,600
third

878
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:26,880
uh private contractors okay so

879
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,559
that's where you get the uh

880
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,399
i don't call it a legend or a rumor

881
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:34,960
according to him it's it's fact

882
00:33:39,909 --> 00:33:37,360
but we had advancements in night vision

883
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:39,919
fiber optics microchips

884
00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,440
and all these things that came from it

885
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:46,240
but i do whether that's completely true

886
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,279
or partially true

887
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,279
i do think there's good evidence that a

888
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:50,799
lot of this material

889
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:54,480
did go to private contractors

890
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,840
and if there is a secret keeper i don't

891
00:34:02,630 --> 00:33:59,120
know if it's one

892
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:02,640
group anymore i think that a lot of it

893
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:03,360
probably went

894
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:06,480
to places like lockheed and

895
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:08,639
and a lot of battelle for example we

896
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:10,720
talked about that in the show

897
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:15,119
battelle um did did a lot of metallurgy

898
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:17,839
um analysis and we we came up with

899
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:20,000
materials like nintendo

900
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:22,079
you know and if you uh talk to tony

901
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,679
bergali who just got the foia

902
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,599
request back on this they talk about the

903
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,040
memory shape

904
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,520
metals that we know the government was

905
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:31,679
testing we know that

906
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,280
right and so we kind of developed our

907
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,599
own version of it through nintenal

908
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:37,200
which if you i don't have a pair of my

909
00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:39,599
glasses here but if you have your

910
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:42,159
your sunglasses or eyeglasses and you

911
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:43,440
can twist

912
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,760
the rims of them and bend them that's

913
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:47,119
nintenal that

914
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,280
supposedly came from the analysis of

915
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:51,359
this memory metal which we now can

916
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:54,879
do things with and bend so to answer

917
00:35:01,190 --> 00:35:00,470
it is completely speculative except we

918
00:35:03,670 --> 00:35:01,200
do know

919
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,680
that a bulk of it went to wright

920
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:05,440
patterson i think that's pretty well

921
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,640
established

922
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:08,480
just based on people who saw it there

923
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:10,560
people who worked on it there

924
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:13,760
from there it's kind of rumored you know

925
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:14,560
maybe some

926
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:17,280
some went to the different contractors

927
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:17,760
or

928
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:20,720
um you know when when area 51 was

929
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,720
established

930
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:24,480
you know to help in their research there

931
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,599
so who knows

932
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:30,240
one of the cases that you dive into in

933
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,760
one of the episodes i think it's a

934
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:33,440
second or third one

935
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:35,839
is uh keksberg which i've always loved

936
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:38,000
that one and i've had stan gordon on a

937
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:39,280
number of times

938
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:41,920
but uh you went there which is is great

939
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:42,960
you got to do that you

940
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:46,000
and you found a pepsi can you look at

941
00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:46,960
the crash site

942
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:49,839
but um but it was great that i was

943
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:50,720
thinking when

944
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:53,839
the two the two witnesses brought you

945
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:57,119
into the woods there how would anyone

946
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:58,079
remember the way

947
00:36:02,310 --> 00:35:59,839
you know the forests changed over the

948
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,320
years and and you're a kid and

949
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:04,160
how could they possibly remember exactly

950
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:05,599
where that thing

951
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:08,960
landed that's kind of yeah go ahead

952
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,240
i was just i was so stoked

953
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,000
to actually get to kecksburg and have

954
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:15,839
someone even direct me toward

955
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:18,800
towards a very general location because

956
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:20,560
um

957
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:22,560
if if you look at the landscape the

958
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,839
things that don't change are the

959
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:24,800
hillside

960
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:27,440
um and if i could i don't know how much

961
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,359
of that was covered in the actual show

962
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,960
but there's a hill that goes down you

963
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:32,400
can see it from one

964
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,400
road and then there's a private property

965
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:39,119
from the back side that goes down and in

966
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:40,720
this little valley

967
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,839
is this a lot of i guess it would be

968
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:45,520
like scrub oak

969
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,640
and some trees like that and and there's

970
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:50,320
a trail

971
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:53,599
that is uh you can see it's grown over

972
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:54,320
but

973
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:57,280
vehicles could go down in there right

974
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:58,400
and so

975
00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:01,280
um from a couple different witnesses and

976
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:01,920
the one

977
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:05,680
um uh who lived right across

978
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:08,640
the the uh the property from it and

979
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:10,160
where i don't think his house is there

980
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:11,520
anymore

981
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:14,880
but they were very confident that

982
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,040
it was within a couple hundred yards

983
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:18,880
okay this location

984
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:21,040
and so my goal when i got there was to

985
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:23,040
look at the trees and say okay look

986
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:24,800
could any of these trees actually have

987
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:26,480
been here and there's some sizable ones

988
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:27,920
that definitely would have been there

989
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:29,200
and you could you could look at the tree

990
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:31,520
rings and all that stuff

991
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:34,400
so we knew that we were in the general

992
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:35,040
area

993
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:38,640
and then um you know some of the larger

994
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,440
trees

995
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:41,839
did look like you know that if they had

996
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:42,560
been around

997
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:45,599
for 60 years or so

998
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:48,400
that they were kind of chopped off you

999
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:48,960
know

1000
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:51,119
at the top and kind of bent over and

1001
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:53,200
it's speculative but in my brain i'm

1002
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,560
thinking man

1003
00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:56,880
if something had come crack crashing

1004
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:57,599
down here

1005
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:00,640
could have left kind of lopped off trees

1006
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:02,800
that just stopped growing and died

1007
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,160
you know in that area and that's where

1008
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:06,320
we started uh searching

1009
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:09,359
and i i really wish i had more time

1010
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,640
there because

1011
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,320
with permission from the owners i would

1012
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,920
tear the place up

1013
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:16,160
get an excavator in there and well a

1014
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,359
little at a time

1015
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,200
gently you know with uh with metal

1016
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,119
detection and all that

1017
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,000
um uh you know underground radar

1018
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:26,079
whatever they call that

1019
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,240
yeah yeah and i see people commenting

1020
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,400
here about the soda cans and the pull

1021
00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:32,400
tabs yeah

1022
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:34,320
pulling up that pepsi can i'm glad they

1023
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:35,839
included that in the edit

1024
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:38,160
you know it was because i was actually

1025
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:39,920
there on the site googling

1026
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:41,680
you know how old is a pepsi can that

1027
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:43,520
still had the tab on it

1028
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:45,280
and trying to look it up to get an idea

1029
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,160
of how long that thing had been there

1030
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:50,000
it could have been the 70s early 70s

1031
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:51,680
right that's what i got to i think in

1032
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,760
the 70s is about that is when they

1033
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:55,359
stopped using that

1034
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:58,079
so maybe it was an era of keksburg but

1035
00:39:02,230 --> 00:38:59,200
what it said was

1036
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:02,240
this area first of all the top soil it

1037
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:03,200
wasn't that f

1038
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,720
well i did dig a lot and i actually gave

1039
00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:08,240
the shovel to one of the crew guys you

1040
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:09,839
didn't see it i'm like come on guys

1041
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:11,599
we don't have to film me doing all of

1042
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,480
this that's right

1043
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:16,400
you need a body double in there doing it

1044
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:17,680
hey uh

1045
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:19,440
before uh we're gonna bring calvin in in

1046
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:20,800
just a minute but before that

1047
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:23,200
um just a couple things first of all i

1048
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:24,400
had no idea that

1049
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:26,000
there was a men in black story about

1050
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:27,520
that maybe we'll get a chance to talk

1051
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,560
about that or not but

1052
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,240
that kind of shocked me because i never

1053
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:33,040
heard that before but the other thing is

1054
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,680
um before we bring calvin in i'd like

1055
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:37,200
for you to talk about the episode with

1056
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:38,720
your father because i thought that was

1057
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:42,000
really really good um because

1058
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,800
you have told me this exact story before

1059
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:46,160
and hang in there calvin we'll bring you

1060
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:47,119
in in a bit

1061
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:49,599
um but ben you've told me this story

1062
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:51,280
about your grandfather before

1063
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:53,599
and it's such a moving story for the

1064
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:55,280
person that hasn't heard this can we

1065
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,960
talk about that episode and you actually

1066
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:57,760
filmed

1067
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:59,440
your father talking about this it was

1068
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,880
really uh

1069
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:02,400
that's my favorite episode because of

1070
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:05,119
that yeah i really like the way that the

1071
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,319
editors handled it

1072
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:08,880
um because a lot of our show has you

1073
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,359
know

1074
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:12,160
creepy and moving and powerful music to

1075
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:14,319
kind of help get you through the stories

1076
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:14,880
and

1077
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:18,000
this part because

1078
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:20,079
um i don't know if you can tell in the

1079
00:40:24,870 --> 00:40:21,040
edit but

1080
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,880
you know i i i wasn't crying

1081
00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:26,960
but i i could tell my eyes were getting

1082
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,319
kind of watery

1083
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,240
hearing this because i've heard that

1084
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:31,760
part of the story

1085
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:34,960
a few times from my dad um i didn't have

1086
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:37,520
all the details that he gave me

1087
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:40,960
but basically my grandpa worked for the

1088
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:41,599
air force

1089
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:49,760
utah and

1090
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:53,200
at about 1965 was the first time my dad

1091
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:53,839
remembers

1092
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,480
him coming to him and saying hey son i'm

1093
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:58,640
going to be

1094
00:41:01,670 --> 00:41:01,040
on a special assignment for the air

1095
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,680
force

1096
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,560
and occasionally i could be called out

1097
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:06,240
to some location i may not be able to

1098
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:07,359
tell you where i'm going or when i'm

1099
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,800
coming back

1100
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,640
and this is cold war era and my dad's

1101
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:12,240
like you mean like a nuclear war thing

1102
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:13,440
and he's like

1103
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:17,200
something like that so in the summer of

1104
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,400
65 i think was the first time that he

1105
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,480
he got a call and my dad would sometimes

1106
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:24,480
have to drive him to the airport

1107
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:27,599
or to the air force base get on a flight

1108
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:29,440
and he'd be gone for sometimes two

1109
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:33,040
three four weeks and

1110
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,119
so to kind of summarize what happened

1111
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:37,119
here was um

1112
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:40,400
uh he was unavailable by phone

1113
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,359
um my my grandpa told him that he was

1114
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:45,119
working underground when he was a

1115
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,400
wright patterson which is is where the

1116
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:50,000
foreign technology division is for the

1117
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:51,440
air force

1118
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,680
and um he was underground doing things

1119
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,680
he would never talk about what he did

1120
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:58,079
he remembers he was he was alone a lot

1121
00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:59,680
he was very lonely he said where he

1122
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,440
worked and he only knew people by first

1123
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:02,960
names

1124
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:07,359
and uh so as my grandpa got older

1125
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:10,560
he developed prostate cancer

1126
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:13,760
and um and eventually spread to his

1127
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:14,560
brain and my

1128
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:18,000
my dad was would go over and like watch

1129
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:20,800
tv shows with him and one of the the big

1130
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:23,440
shows at the time was unsolved mysteries

1131
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:26,160
and uh this is when they started talking

1132
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:27,280
about roswell

1133
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:30,640
and stuff in the late 80s early 90s

1134
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,319
and my my dad was like hey wait a second

1135
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:36,720
um don't weren't you in it wright

1136
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:38,720
patterson and they're saying this debris

1137
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:42,000
to wright patterson and uh

1138
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:43,760
i don't have time to get all the details

1139
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:45,920
up but talking about phil corso

1140
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:49,040
phillip shows up on the screen and um

1141
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:51,520
my grandpa is like oh it's old phil

1142
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:53,040
haven't seen him in a while my dad's

1143
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:54,400
like you know this guy

1144
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:57,200
wow and and so that was kind of not a

1145
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:58,400
little weird thing

1146
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,000
but he would ask him questions

1147
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:04,480
and he would ask him about aliens he'd

1148
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:07,200
ask him if this stuff was true

1149
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:09,040
and he's like you you worked there

1150
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:11,200
didn't you know something and

1151
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:13,359
for the longest time my grandpa would

1152
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:14,400
laugh

1153
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,400
he'd change the subject and one day he

1154
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,240
actually got really mad

1155
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:20,880
and he got up and he said we've got to

1156
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,240
get out of here um

1157
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,880
they were at the gym at the time and so

1158
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:26,400
this went on until

1159
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:28,000
they didn't really talk about it for

1160
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:30,560
some time and he's on his deathbed

1161
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:34,560
and um uh this is the story my dad tells

1162
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:34,880
in

1163
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,359
hours i

1164
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:43,200
didn't make it to the hospital i was i

1165
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,480
was on a date actually

1166
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:46,079
and i meant to stop at the hospital my

1167
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:47,680
way home

1168
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:50,560
and but my dad had this time alone and

1169
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:52,640
he looks at him he says son

1170
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:55,200
i know what you've been asking me and i

1171
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:58,079
want you to know that we're not alone

1172
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,960
and he knows that my grandpa was saying

1173
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,319
this in the context

1174
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:05,119
of the question about life on other

1175
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:06,480
worlds he wasn't

1176
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:08,720
asking about life after death they they

1177
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:09,760
all believed

1178
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:12,240
you know we've always believed that but

1179
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:13,760
he said i want you to know we're not

1180
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:14,560
alone

1181
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,319
take care of your mother everything's

1182
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:18,319
gonna be okay

1183
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,079
and um he shortly passed away after that

1184
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:24,640
and and so that episode really dives

1185
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,160
into

1186
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,480
my dad and i trying to match up some

1187
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:29,520
dates

1188
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:32,560
trying to figure out if there's a timing

1189
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,040
of

1190
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,800
when my grandpa was going out there what

1191
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,720
he may have been working on

1192
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:38,800
what was this special team he was a part

1193
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:39,839
of

1194
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:41,680
why was he underground when wright

1195
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,839
patterson to this day denies they have

1196
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,440
an underground complex which is just

1197
00:44:50,309 --> 00:44:47,599
laughable i mean come on

1198
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,319
um you know all these different things

1199
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:52,480
and uh it's been kind of our our journey

1200
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,319
together

1201
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:56,800
yeah well it was a it's a great episode

1202
00:45:02,230 --> 00:44:59,119
the way that all all played out was uh

1203
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:02,240
very moving um don't you wish

1204
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:04,640
your grandfather could have just talked

1205
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:05,440
to you

1206
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:08,400
i mean i know they they're sworn to

1207
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:09,920
secrecy and all that but

1208
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:13,440
it sure would have been nice to know

1209
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:16,960
you probably uh uh he'd probably say

1210
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,680
something like

1211
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:19,599
but don't ever share it on the podcast

1212
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,000
ufo

1213
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,839
or left a note or something that we

1214
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:25,520
could discover later you know

1215
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:28,800
um yeah then he would maybe be violating

1216
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,520
his oath

1217
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:32,000
felt you know just leave us some clue

1218
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:37,030
close that statement he made was was

1219
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:37,440
quite

1220
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:40,880
going to bring in

1221
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:44,880
our uh guest uh calvin parker

1222
00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:47,200
welcome to the show calvin thank you how

1223
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:48,560
are y'all doing

1224
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:52,000
we're doing it yeah

1225
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,000
i've been sitting here listening to ben

1226
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:55,920
that's pretty interesting

1227
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,920
well thank you yeah we never had time to

1228
00:46:01,990 --> 00:45:59,520
get into that when i was out there with

1229
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:02,000
you it's uh

1230
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,440
kind of my personal personal

1231
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:08,240
uh connection to all this but you know i

1232
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:09,839
was into ufos a lot

1233
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:11,839
a lot before i even knew that my grandpa

1234
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:13,119
had a connection

1235
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:16,240
so maybe it runs in the blood um

1236
00:46:21,349 --> 00:46:19,920
along those lines ben did did uh

1237
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,359
you said you watched like unsolved

1238
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:23,359
mysteries or something like that

1239
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:26,240
um did your grandfather react to any of

1240
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,599
these type of shows but

1241
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:30,240
you know when when you were just getting

1242
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:30,960
there

1243
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,720
yeah it was one of his favorite shows

1244
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:34,480
and and they had this system kind of

1245
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:35,280
worked out

1246
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,400
which mark magruder and his dad he said

1247
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:40,319
was kind of the same thing where

1248
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:42,960
my couple would sit in his recliner my

1249
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,920
dad would bring

1250
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:45,520
like it was usually like a ham and

1251
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:47,920
cheese sandwich and a drink

1252
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:49,440
and they'd sit down and watch it

1253
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:52,560
together and my dad would say like

1254
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:54,400
do you think that's real do you think

1255
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:56,960
that that they really brought debris

1256
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:57,680
there and

1257
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:01,040
and if it was yes my grandpa go hmm

1258
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:03,920
that's interesting and then every now

1259
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:05,359
and then he'd go like oh no that's

1260
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:06,319
completely

1261
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:10,400
idiotic that's stupid and so he wasn't

1262
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:13,359
telling him but he would confirm that

1263
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,560
you know like i

1264
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,480
i think that that might be on the right

1265
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:18,319
track sort of thing you know that was

1266
00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:20,079
kind of their code he felt like that he

1267
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:21,599
was getting information

1268
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:24,800
how about that oh so calvin uh again

1269
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:25,920
welcome to the show

1270
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:27,119
we're gonna be going right through the

1271
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:28,960
uh next hour but uh

1272
00:47:32,230 --> 00:47:30,960
so i don't know which one of you want to

1273
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:32,240
talk about but

1274
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,160
you are in one of the episodes and you

1275
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:36,000
did an episode together

1276
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,599
and um so ben how did all that work out

1277
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:41,920
um yeah so i'll tell you kind of how we

1278
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:44,240
we met calvin and and i'm not sponsoring

1279
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,800
um

1280
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:46,480
subway here i'm just gonna take a little

1281
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:53,270
okay it's getting a little bit dry um

1282
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,359
but if subway wants to sponsor us feel

1283
00:48:01,750 --> 00:47:57,599
free um

1284
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:01,760
so we were doing an episode on

1285
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:04,480
abduction cases and and looking at

1286
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:05,040
different

1287
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:10,960
entities that are reported i of course

1288
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:13,040
had heard of the pascagoula case but i

1289
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:14,400
honestly

1290
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:17,359
uh didn't know much about it and i think

1291
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:19,920
calvin would agree here

1292
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:22,640
when he first came out and began sharing

1293
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:23,520
a story

1294
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:27,200
there was so much uh almost revolt

1295
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:29,280
repulsion revulsion

1296
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:32,240
against a lot of what they had to say

1297
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:35,200
because it didn't fit the traditional

1298
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:38,319
if there was a traditional sort of uh

1299
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:41,119
you know description of of entities at

1300
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:41,839
the time

1301
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:44,960
and it was it was very bizarre and

1302
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,599
um they got ridiculed so much so that

1303
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:49,200
and then calvin can tell you more about

1304
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:50,400
that

1305
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:53,280
but he he went kind of into hiding uh he

1306
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:55,520
didn't want to talk about this

1307
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:58,559
and and so the story wasn't as front and

1308
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:59,040
center

1309
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:01,520
it didn't like travis walton's case you

1310
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,920
know eventually they did a movie on it

1311
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:05,599
they did all this stuff and travis tried

1312
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:07,760
to hide too he didn't want to talk about

1313
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:08,079
it

1314
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:11,839
much about the story

1315
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:15,040
and as i always try to have an objective

1316
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:15,839
mind

1317
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:18,400
if you look at what happened to these

1318
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:19,760
two men

1319
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:22,800
it sounds like a sci-fi movie but if you

1320
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:24,880
withhold your judgment

1321
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:27,440
and you get to meet someone such as

1322
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:28,079
calvin

1323
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:30,960
and talk to him he is the most humble

1324
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:41,430
earth guy he and his his wife are just

1325
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:45,349
you know um you just get this

1326
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:49,040
that uh you know everyone's capable of

1327
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,680
lying

1328
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,680
but if there was somebody he would least

1329
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:53,440
ever ever suspect

1330
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:57,119
it would be calvin right and and so

1331
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:58,720
that's the vibe i got from him when i

1332
00:50:02,710 --> 00:49:59,680
heard his story

1333
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:02,720
and i i learned the evidence surrounding

1334
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:03,680
the case

1335
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:06,880
how law enforcement was involved uh

1336
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:08,880
how the military was very interested in

1337
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:11,040
what they had to say

1338
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:14,160
um how you you have two witnesses you

1339
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:16,400
have then other witnesses who saw the

1340
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:17,520
craft

1341
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:19,839
you know in the area it builds a very

1342
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:21,359
strong case

1343
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:24,800
and so i to me calvin parker's

1344
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:28,640
um incident is a a testament to me that

1345
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:31,760
no matter how bizarre the story sounds

1346
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:33,839
you've got to spend the time and look at

1347
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:36,160
the ancillary witnesses the other

1348
00:50:38,829 --> 00:50:37,760
evidence and talk to the person

1349
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:38,839
themselves

1350
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:43,680
available um and then it may not

1351
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,720
and uh so it was a great

1352
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:48,480
it's this episode when we're trying to

1353
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:53,990
you know if there's a pattern from from

1354
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:56,000
back then to now and if people are still

1355
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:58,880
having similar experience

1356
00:51:02,069 --> 00:51:01,440
yeah uh yeah ben you're cutting out a

1357
00:51:04,549 --> 00:51:02,079
lot we're

1358
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:04,559
um we really can't do much about that

1359
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:06,160
there's only four minutes left

1360
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:09,119
to this segment um anyway and we we're

1361
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:09,920
going to

1362
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:13,359
dive right into um calvin's story

1363
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:16,720
in the in the next uh hour but uh

1364
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:20,400
calvin actually came uh approached me

1365
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,599
after a blog came out back in 2013

1366
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:25,920
but calvin you were you hadn't talked to

1367
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,280
anyone i mean i was

1368
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:29,760
the first one to get you back i mean on

1369
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:30,319
the air

1370
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:34,160
uh in years right oh absolutely

1371
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:38,800
um we met at the conference to

1372
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:41,839
whichever one ah

1373
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:46,480
arizona yeah and uh

1374
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:50,000
it was just a bond kind of i got up

1375
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:53,520
on stage and uh told my little story in

1376
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:54,720
martin

1377
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,400
minutes afterwards and just so happened

1378
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:00,240
that um

1379
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:02,960
paul heineck was there yeah that's right

1380
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:04,160
we had an interview

1381
00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:07,599
coming up i said can martin

1382
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:10,480
can paul set in on this oh absolutely

1383
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:12,000
come on

1384
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:14,880
and we all formed a little bond right

1385
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:15,200
there

1386
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:18,720
you know where we uh got to meet

1387
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:23,040
got to know each other and that's right

1388
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:26,640
i really that that's uh that show dummy

1389
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,040
more good in arizona

1390
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:32,319
than any of them have uh

1391
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:35,119
for opening me up and letting me talk

1392
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:37,520
where a lot of people would go on stage

1393
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:38,240
and

1394
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:43,280
i wanted to meet people i got out in the

1395
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:45,359
crowd

1396
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:48,720
mingled a little bit talked and met some

1397
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:50,800
of the nicest people i've ever seen in

1398
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:52,480
my life there

1399
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,960
yeah and if i was don't ever go to

1400
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:56,960
another conference it would be that one

1401
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:58,400
also

1402
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:02,000
yeah um so uh

1403
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:05,760
so so ben um you we we have just two

1404
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,480
minutes uh

1405
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:09,119
just yeah two minutes left unfortunately

1406
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:11,680
but um so you got down there and

1407
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:14,319
um did you ever look into any we're

1408
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:15,359
going to be talking about this in the

1409
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:17,520
next hour but did you ever look into any

1410
00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:19,920
thing like the secret tape the police

1411
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:21,520
recorded and things like that when you

1412
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:23,359
were looking into this case

1413
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,319
yeah um absolutely and i think in the

1414
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,400
episode they play some of that audio if

1415
00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:29,920
i remember correctly

1416
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:32,880
um it was circulating online somewhere

1417
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:34,559
somebody has a copy but i can't remember

1418
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:35,839
if it should put up in the uh the

1419
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:36,480
episode

1420
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:38,559
that's right it's bad audio the audio is

1421
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:39,920
really tough to hear

1422
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:43,440
but yeah so yeah and i'm sure you guys

1423
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:44,800
will talk about that but that

1424
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:47,200
that also was something that that really

1425
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:48,400
pushed um

1426
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:50,559
dr heineck into believing the case

1427
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:51,760
because

1428
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:54,160
uh it was a surreptitious recording and

1429
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:56,079
a lot of times you will capture

1430
00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:59,119
um you know in a criminal situation

1431
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:01,040
you know that the couple says talking

1432
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:03,119
about something once they don't

1433
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:04,640
think it's in there like let's keep our

1434
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:06,559
story straight sort of thing

1435
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:08,400
right but you hear the genuineness of

1436
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:09,599
the fear

1437
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:12,400
and um and and what the two were

1438
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:13,920
discussing when they didn't know they're

1439
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:15,680
being recorded and so

1440
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,640
uh it it's probably illegal to do so in

1441
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:20,400
the state

1442
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:23,119
to do that now but it's a good thing

1443
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:24,160
that they were doing

1444
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:27,839
it because it kind of um

1445
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:29,760
really supports that idea that this was

1446
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:30,960
a genuine encounter

1447
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:34,240
and and got dr heineck to back them up

1448
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:37,760
you know if i don't say nothing else

1449
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:41,040
i have the full tape now where

1450
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,559
when you walk in the sheriff's

1451
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:44,400
department

1452
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:46,880
and they interviewed us both separate

1453
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:49,119
that's all on tape beside the secret

1454
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:50,000
room

1455
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:54,799
and a secret tape that they thought oh

1456
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:57,920
is also on it so i was able to get all

1457
00:55:01,750 --> 00:54:58,400
that

1458
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:01,760
original reel to it oh awesome

1459
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:04,880
yeah and i'm going to try to look at it

1460
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:05,359
and i'll

1461
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:09,920
get you all a copy and send it to you

1462
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:12,640
all right well ben thank you so much

1463
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,160
calvin you're going to hang in there

1464
00:55:17,829 --> 00:55:16,319
ben i really appreciate it it's always

1465
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:17,839
always nice talking to you and always

1466
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:19,599
nice uh seeing you as well when that can

1467
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:20,400
happen

1468
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,040
and uh so again it's a discovery plus

1469
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:25,440
the new series is ufo witness

1470
00:55:29,670 --> 00:55:27,680
and uh check that out you can uh get

1471
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:29,680
that online streaming

1472
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:32,400
and thanks so much ben you're welcome

1473
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:33,119
thanks martin

1474
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,880
and thanks calvin we'll we'll catch up

1475
00:55:39,349 --> 00:55:36,240
with you later welcome

1476
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:41,430
so here is the treat we got uh in the

1477
00:55:46,829 --> 00:55:43,599
break here we're going to be playing

1478
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,839
a little thing uh called blackwater blue

1479
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:49,040
moon and uh

1480
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,440
i don't have uh here we go with uh the

1481
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:54,160
credits on that's kind of important

1482
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,720
that's the calvin parker story this is a

1483
00:56:08,230 --> 00:55:58,079
song by johnny cobb

1484
00:56:17,180 --> 00:56:11,829
black water blue moon

1485
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:17,190
strange things

1486
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:19,599
[Music]

1487
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:23,040
it was an october night fishing

1488
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:31,750
skies lit up time stood

1489
00:56:39,430 --> 00:56:34,960
still my whole world changed

1490
00:56:45,390 --> 00:56:39,440
it's my way there like water and a

1491
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:49,270
[Music]

1492
00:57:01,829 --> 00:56:58,640
some strange things man i

1493
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:01,839
was will never be the same

1494
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:06,720
will folks believe or think i'm insane

1495
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:10,480
or things still a mystery

1496
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:13,839
while they took my friend and me

1497
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:17,040
there was like water and a

1498
00:57:25,150 --> 00:57:20,960
blue moon silence is louder than

1499
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:25,160
thunder and jew left water

1500
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:37,440
[Music]

1501
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:40,640
i noticed blue hazy lights reflected

1502
00:57:44,710 --> 00:57:41,599
coming across

1503
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:44,720
from my back out across the water

1504
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:48,400
a real bright beam appeared

1505
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:50,480
all over us but it kind of blinded me

1506
00:57:53,349 --> 00:57:52,720
for a second and when i got my vision

1507
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,359
back

1508
00:57:56,829 --> 00:57:55,680
i see three bulky looking creatures

1509
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:56,839
coming toward us

1510
00:58:01,750 --> 00:58:00,160
telepathically you know don't be afraid

1511
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:01,760
we're not gonna hurt you

1512
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:04,400
you can't really pin everything down you

1513
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:05,760
don't really know

1514
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:08,160
and that's the point i'm hoping now i

1515
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:09,680
don't know what happened

1516
00:58:13,839 --> 00:58:24,290
i ran for my fears

1517
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:33,670
[Music]

1518
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:49,900
the silence is loud of that bird

1519
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:19,030
black water blue moon

1520
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:20,710
[Music]

1521
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:24,160
oh all right everyone uh welcome back

1522
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:27,760
uh i have calvin parker on calvin

1523
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,599
how are you good to have you back here

1524
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:31,520
great and good to be back

1525
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:34,400
martin uh you know since you've been on

1526
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:35,280
the last time

1527
00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:36,480
a lot of things have happened we can

1528
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:38,640
talk about that um but

1529
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:42,640
some uh interesting on my side

1530
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,119
is i never really looked into the early

1531
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:47,680
part of the reporting on your story

1532
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,440
and so uh thanks to philip uh mantle

1533
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:53,599
and some of the stuff that he's helped

1534
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:55,599
along with a great website

1535
01:00:01,990 --> 01:00:00,000
and um there's a great page and there's

1536
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:02,000
awful lot of research that i was never

1537
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,240
even uh aware of

1538
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:06,559
at the time and i'll see if i can figure

1539
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:08,000
that out i can actually bring that up

1540
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:09,599
possibly it doesn't look like i have it

1541
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:10,480
right here

1542
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:13,680
but um there's a lot of research

1543
01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:17,200
of the um for instance

1544
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:19,119
a document came forward that actually

1545
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:20,319
when they uh

1546
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:23,520
examined you they found puncture wounds

1547
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:25,359
on your left arm i believe and actually

1548
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:27,119
on your leg and also

1549
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:30,240
charles uh he had puncture marks on him

1550
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:33,280
as well when he was examined yeah both

1551
01:00:38,069 --> 01:00:34,720
of us did

1552
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,079
and i felt like we had some kind of

1553
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,559
injection there but

1554
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:42,960
didn't say nothing then once we got to

1555
01:00:49,030 --> 01:00:46,000
the singing river hospital

1556
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:49,040
and then dr heineck sentence and harper

1557
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:51,200
you know they just verified yeah that's

1558
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:54,160
some kind of injection mark

1559
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,880
wow yeah just i think that was more or

1560
01:01:00,470 --> 01:00:58,640
less to relaxes

1561
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:00,480
because when they did that i really

1562
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:05,910
didn't care what was happening that's

1563
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:07,200
the biggest thing

1564
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:08,960
that that's uh that's what i was reading

1565
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:11,359
and this what i read was uh

1566
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,599
your interview right away with the

1567
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,599
sheriff that night

1568
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:18,000
um when he interviewed you i read the

1569
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:19,599
transcript of that

1570
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:21,280
and you know everything that you've

1571
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:23,119
talked about over the years is right

1572
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:24,400
there um

1573
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:27,680
the the one part that's uh they left the

1574
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:28,480
room

1575
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,079
you didn't know that they were recording

1576
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:32,000
you and you and

1577
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:34,559
you and uh charles go right into this

1578
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:35,440
thing and and

1579
01:01:41,829 --> 01:01:39,119
uh how you were just a wreck basically

1580
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:41,839
i mean you you needed you said you

1581
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:43,599
needed something to calm your nerves

1582
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:45,839
and nobody's going to believe you and

1583
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:46,880
this is when all

1584
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,599
all the while um you had no idea that

1585
01:01:54,309 --> 01:01:51,119
you were being recorded

1586
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:54,319
and no absolutely absolutely not

1587
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:57,520
it's so great that the

1588
01:02:00,789 --> 01:02:00,160
police officer had the foresight to do

1589
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:00,799
that

1590
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:04,720
unfortunately you can't understand much

1591
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,240
of it when you're listening but

1592
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:08,079
um i did listen to it a couple of times

1593
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:09,680
as a 30-minute tape

1594
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:12,960
um that also is the interview and then

1595
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:14,240
it goes into

1596
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:16,960
you know you or when he left the room

1597
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:17,839
and uh

1598
01:02:20,950 --> 01:02:19,760
again hard to listen to but one of the

1599
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:20,960
things that i

1600
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:24,000
never heard you talk about is uh

1601
01:02:28,630 --> 01:02:26,160
uh charles turns around he sees you

1602
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:28,640
there and your arms are up in the air

1603
01:02:31,750 --> 01:02:30,960
and you say that you you know when

1604
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:31,760
you're

1605
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:34,640
talking to him about it in private you

1606
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:36,000
basically say

1607
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:37,599
i couldn't move my arms it was like i

1608
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:39,200
was bit by a rattlesnake there was

1609
01:02:43,829 --> 01:02:40,720
nothing you could do

1610
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,839
yeah and that's what it

1611
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:45,920
you know that's how scared i was at the

1612
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:48,000
time my arms are stretched

1613
01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:50,240
out toward the river almost in the same

1614
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:52,160
spot they put me

1615
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:55,359
back in and that's when

1616
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,359
charlie said well you know we need to

1617
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:59,119
let somebody know

1618
01:03:03,430 --> 01:03:01,440
no we don't need to let nobody know i

1619
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:03,440
don't want nobody to know that i was

1620
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:04,799
even there

1621
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:06,960
and charlie snuck around and you know

1622
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:09,760
made the phone calls

1623
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:12,720
if you uh are you glad that it was talk

1624
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:15,039
that you were able to talk about it

1625
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:18,000
oh very very happy to be able to talk

1626
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:18,960
about it

1627
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:22,160
is it almost therapeutic in a way in a

1628
01:03:26,789 --> 01:03:23,920
way yeah

1629
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:26,799
and uh like everybody else i'm still

1630
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:27,359
hunting

1631
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:30,880
answers and the best thing that happened

1632
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:31,520
to me

1633
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:33,440
when you put me in touch with phillip

1634
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:35,200
mantle

1635
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:38,240
and uh we said

1636
01:03:43,589 --> 01:03:41,760
and he finished it off he wanted he

1637
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,599
wanted me to do a book he said that's

1638
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:45,680
your legacy

1639
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:50,480
so i got to believing it was my legacy

1640
01:03:56,870 --> 01:03:54,079
and i guess it was to do it now

1641
01:03:58,710 --> 01:03:56,880
you reach a time and point with all this

1642
01:04:00,549 --> 01:03:58,720
going on in the world

1643
01:04:02,549 --> 01:04:00,559
you kind of get burned out on it a

1644
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:02,559
little bit and i'm right here at that

1645
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:04,640
point and i'm gonna have to take

1646
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:07,839
a little short vacation sure

1647
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:11,359
before i get back to it

1648
01:04:16,789 --> 01:04:14,880
but uh i've got my houseboat ready

1649
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:16,799
matter of fact i went down and spent the

1650
01:04:21,430 --> 01:04:18,960
night on in case electricity went

1651
01:04:22,870 --> 01:04:21,440
up oh my goodness you know when people

1652
01:04:24,789 --> 01:04:22,880
say a houseboat

1653
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:24,799
you just picture a houseboat you showed

1654
01:04:29,190 --> 01:04:26,559
me a picture of this thing

1655
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:29,200
that's a house mansion that thing is

1656
01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:30,319
huge

1657
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:34,400
how big is that thing oh it's 120 foot

1658
01:04:39,349 --> 01:04:36,079
long

1659
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:39,359
i mean who has 120 foot house yeah

1660
01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:42,480
three stories that's an amazing g-rated

1661
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:43,039
uh

1662
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:48,799
i always keep it ready and i knew last

1663
01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:51,039
night if the electricity went off i'd go

1664
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:52,880
down there and crank it

1665
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:55,680
and yeah we'd have electricity and heat

1666
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:57,280
and water

1667
01:05:02,710 --> 01:05:01,440
and hot water but my wife and my mother

1668
01:05:05,670 --> 01:05:02,720
didn't want to go

1669
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:05,680
and i said well y'all got one chance i'm

1670
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:06,640
going

1671
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:10,319
and it's not but about 600 foot from the

1672
01:05:14,390 --> 01:05:11,440
house

1673
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:14,400
oh really it's that close yeah so i had

1674
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:15,039
a friend

1675
01:05:22,069 --> 01:05:19,440
friend that come by that uh pretty much

1676
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:22,079
didn't have nowhere warm to stay and i

1677
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:24,079
said i tell you what come stay with me

1678
01:05:29,670 --> 01:05:27,119
i got uh three bedrooms

1679
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:29,680
big bedrooms you just take any one you

1680
01:05:34,309 --> 01:05:31,280
want

1681
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:34,319
so we spent the night down there but i

1682
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:36,319
didn't let them know i kept coming up

1683
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:39,119
here and checking on them too

1684
01:05:43,990 --> 01:05:42,640
um would you would it bother you or

1685
01:05:45,910 --> 01:05:44,000
i know i'm really putting you on the

1686
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:45,920
spot but can i can i put the picture of

1687
01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:48,480
your houseboat up

1688
01:05:56,069 --> 01:05:52,400
oh would you rather not i'd rather not

1689
01:05:59,349 --> 01:05:58,309
that's my fault for saying it live on on

1690
01:06:02,470 --> 01:05:59,359
here um

1691
01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:02,480
and no problem at all uh so uh

1692
01:06:07,109 --> 01:06:06,160
calvin i i neglected to and i do this

1693
01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:07,119
often

1694
01:06:11,910 --> 01:06:10,000
i neglected the the new listener to the

1695
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:11,920
show the new listener that may have not

1696
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:12,640
have heard

1697
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:14,720
the pascagoula incident some people are

1698
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:15,920
probably out there rolling their eyes

1699
01:06:18,069 --> 01:06:16,559
right now

1700
01:06:20,390 --> 01:06:18,079
they know the story they've heard it a

1701
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:20,400
bunch of times but um can you in a

1702
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:22,000
nutshell for the person that's never

1703
01:06:25,829 --> 01:06:23,119
heard about the incident

1704
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:25,839
can you just kind of try to make a a

1705
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:26,960
fiver

1706
01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:29,520
ten minute the most uh nutshell of what

1707
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:31,119
happened

1708
01:06:35,750 --> 01:06:34,160
absolutely i was working in the oil

1709
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:35,760
field

1710
01:06:41,109 --> 01:06:38,880
going to get married in october oh

1711
01:06:42,789 --> 01:06:41,119
this was october going to get married in

1712
01:06:45,029 --> 01:06:42,799
november

1713
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:45,039
so i was needing another job because all

1714
01:06:50,309 --> 01:06:46,000
i was doing

1715
01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:50,319
was staying gone putting in nires

1716
01:06:55,829 --> 01:06:53,200
so i called daddy told me to call up

1717
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:55,839
charles hickson and talk to him

1718
01:06:59,430 --> 01:06:57,920
he said yeah son come on down i'd give

1719
01:07:02,950 --> 01:06:59,440
you a job fit and

1720
01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:02,960
uh ship hitting if you can well that's

1721
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:06,559
not yeah we'll get through that

1722
01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:08,880
so i loaded up went down there and he

1723
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:10,720
had a room for rent and i

1724
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:14,079
leased a room for him well the next day

1725
01:07:19,510 --> 01:07:17,280
we get up to go to work so i went and

1726
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:19,520
got my brass

1727
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:22,720
my physical that was the second physical

1728
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:23,359
i had

1729
01:07:30,309 --> 01:07:26,960
anyhow

1730
01:07:32,710 --> 01:07:30,319
we brassed in worked all day when was

1731
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:32,720
getting off work this was in october the

1732
01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:33,440
11th

1733
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:36,880
now my first day at work

1734
01:07:40,390 --> 01:07:39,280
he said would you like to go fishing

1735
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:40,400
well

1736
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:43,599
i ain't never fished too much down here

1737
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:47,839
and uh said yeah we'll go fishing

1738
01:07:52,069 --> 01:07:50,400
he said well i don't i told him i said i

1739
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:52,079
don't have no fishing equipment

1740
01:07:55,510 --> 01:07:55,200
oh charlie let's run by my house and

1741
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:55,520
pick

1742
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:59,039
some up you use some of mine well a man

1743
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:00,880
from the south just don't offer us

1744
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:04,079
fishing equipment period because

1745
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:07,200
it just don't happen so we

1746
01:08:12,630 --> 01:08:09,359
went by and picked it up and we drove to

1747
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:12,640
a place called the grain elevator

1748
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:15,440
and it used to be uh where they unload

1749
01:08:21,669 --> 01:08:18,480
ships and that grain would fall off

1750
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:21,679
and the fish would feed her but the bugs

1751
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:23,759
were so bad

1752
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:28,319
it was probably 70 72 degrees that day i

1753
01:08:32,149 --> 01:08:29,440
think

1754
01:08:33,430 --> 01:08:32,159
the bugs were so bad we couldn't uh

1755
01:08:36,829 --> 01:08:33,440
stand them

1756
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:36,839
so he said let's go to the shaw peter

1757
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:38,640
shipyard

1758
01:08:41,749 --> 01:08:41,120
and try it there well we pulled up there

1759
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:41,759
was a no

1760
01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:44,719
trespassing sign a bunch of debris on

1761
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:45,679
the ground

1762
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:47,679
and i said why don't they keep this

1763
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:49,759
place up he said because

1764
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,120
this washes in and it don't wash back

1765
01:08:57,189 --> 01:08:55,679
out and there's one thing that i would

1766
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:57,199
like to clear up

1767
01:09:01,669 --> 01:08:59,920
that i never have cleared up though

1768
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:01,679
people saying well

1769
01:09:06,229 --> 01:09:03,920
you wasn't seeing on the cameras why

1770
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,239
heck no i wasn't saying on the cameras

1771
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:08,400
it was an abandoned shipyard they didn't

1772
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:10,400
have cameras

1773
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:13,199
so yeah that isn't a lot of a lot of

1774
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:14,799
places have talked about

1775
01:09:19,349 --> 01:09:16,640
why didn't that use they see you or the

1776
01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,359
tollbooth cameras too or i believe

1777
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:21,120
yeah they didn't have cameras in the

1778
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,040
toll booth it was manned all the time

1779
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:27,040
so i just wanted to clear that up

1780
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:28,560
because it's come up

1781
01:09:34,870 --> 01:09:31,600
and uh yeah you know i hadn't

1782
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:34,880
confronted them about it but uh anyhow

1783
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:36,960
we got our equipment we walked down to

1784
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:38,640
the pier

1785
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:42,239
and i was afraid of fishing uh

1786
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:45,759
on no trespassing you know where they

1787
01:09:50,470 --> 01:09:47,600
had them no trespassing signs

1788
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:50,480
child don't worry about it so i went

1789
01:09:54,390 --> 01:09:51,359
down with him

1790
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:54,400
so i had to trust him to put my

1791
01:10:00,830 --> 01:09:57,600
life being out of jail there

1792
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:00,840
we sat down i was looking across the

1793
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:02,159
river

1794
01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:05,440
and there was no um noah

1795
01:10:09,189 --> 01:10:07,760
ship or maybe a coast guard ship or

1796
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:09,199
something there

1797
01:10:13,830 --> 01:10:12,000
tied up and to myself i was just sitting

1798
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:13,840
there thinking you know starting a new

1799
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:14,719
job

1800
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:17,840
i've seen how thick that uh

1801
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,480
steel was though well i was thinking

1802
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:22,960
well how does steel

1803
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:26,640
float in this stuff like that

1804
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:29,280
and that's what was on my mind and all

1805
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:31,199
of a sudden

1806
01:10:36,310 --> 01:10:35,120
coming across behind me across the river

1807
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:36,320
where

1808
01:10:40,390 --> 01:10:38,880
johnny cobb got that little information

1809
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:40,400
from the song

1810
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:42,560
where the light showed up coming from

1811
01:10:46,870 --> 01:10:45,040
behind me across the river

1812
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,880
i turned around and looked and i thought

1813
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,480
it was a law

1814
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:50,320
i said well they're here to put us in

1815
01:10:54,709 --> 01:10:51,920
jail charlie

1816
01:10:56,950 --> 01:10:54,719
about that time he turned around there

1817
01:10:58,310 --> 01:10:56,960
was a bright light one of the brightest

1818
01:11:01,990 --> 01:10:58,320
lights i've ever seen

1819
01:11:03,110 --> 01:11:02,000
shined on us and it just blinded us

1820
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:03,120
almost

1821
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:06,480
and before we could and

1822
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:09,199
that's actually what the craft looked

1823
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,320
like to me

1824
01:11:13,350 --> 01:11:12,800
so for those of you on youtube uh the

1825
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:13,360
reason

1826
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:15,520
um he stopped there is because of this

1827
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:17,920
is a drawing that you actually did

1828
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:21,120
yes um um and how long ago did you do

1829
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:22,480
that drawing was this from

1830
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:25,280
uh was it right after or was it a long

1831
01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:26,400
time after

1832
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:29,920
that was uh with dr heineck oh wow

1833
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:34,320
that night really wow yes sir

1834
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:37,520
and so when this bright light

1835
01:11:42,470 --> 01:11:40,480
shine bonus i noticed three bulky

1836
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:42,480
looking creatures coming they was

1837
01:11:48,630 --> 01:11:45,600
big ugly bulky creatures

1838
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:48,640
and they uh two of them got ahold of

1839
01:11:54,550 --> 01:11:51,040
charlie and one got a hold of myself

1840
01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:54,560
yeah that kind of favors the creatures a

1841
01:12:00,070 --> 01:11:56,640
little bit

1842
01:12:03,669 --> 01:12:00,080
but uh they got a hold of myself

1843
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:03,679
got a hold of charlie well they took me

1844
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:04,560
on

1845
01:12:11,110 --> 01:12:08,560
door

1846
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:11,120
and that's when i noticed the lights

1847
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:12,960
wasn't a bean

1848
01:12:18,550 --> 01:12:16,560
it was coming out of um

1849
01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,560
the ship looked like it was inside the

1850
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:20,480
walls or something

1851
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:23,360
and then when i went inside you know the

1852
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:27,120
bright spotlight just kind of shut out

1853
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:29,600
and i seen these illuminating lights

1854
01:12:34,630 --> 01:12:31,600
with this big ugly thing

1855
01:12:37,430 --> 01:12:34,640
turned left uh

1856
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:37,440
went down the hallway and took a right

1857
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:39,920
just a few feet down there

1858
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:42,560
and while i was looking in i noticed an

1859
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:50,470
well um this creature

1860
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:53,600
the big ugly one carried me over laid me

1861
01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:54,239
on

1862
01:13:02,310 --> 01:12:58,480
nothing right there

1863
01:13:02,870 --> 01:13:02,320
and uh there was something about the

1864
01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:02,880
size of

1865
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:05,920
a deck of cards the bottom of it was

1866
01:13:09,430 --> 01:13:07,679
blue i could see that

1867
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:09,440
come down about a foot in front of my

1868
01:13:13,910 --> 01:13:10,800
head

1869
01:13:17,110 --> 01:13:13,920
and started rotating it had it four

1870
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:17,120
times it clicked four times then it shot

1871
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:17,520
back

1872
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:21,120
up into the ceiling well

1873
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:24,400
i noticed he backed off but what i

1874
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:25,679
didn't know then

1875
01:13:31,990 --> 01:13:28,560
when they picked us up they gave us uh

1876
01:13:35,110 --> 01:13:32,000
what i call a go to hell shot

1877
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:35,120
and this thing backed off over in the

1878
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:35,600
corner

1879
01:13:42,870 --> 01:13:39,120
shut down like a jack in the box

1880
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:45,430
i didn't hear nothing or didn't see

1881
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:46,560
nothing

1882
01:13:50,950 --> 01:13:48,880
i could roll my head a little bit and i

1883
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:50,960
wrote it to the right

1884
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:54,320
and i sensed a presence in there kind of

1885
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,149
alien woman that came out but she looked

1886
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:02,640
normal she looked to me like a

1887
01:14:13,270 --> 01:14:11,110
the only difference i could tell her two

1888
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:13,280
middle fingers on each hand was a little

1889
01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:15,440
longer

1890
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:18,320
well she kind of pinched me by the jaw a

1891
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:19,600
little bit or kind of

1892
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:22,320
did it like your grandmother would and

1893
01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:23,679
then she grabbed

1894
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:26,800
my chin pushed down with one hand

1895
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:29,760
took her other hand inserted it down my

1896
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:31,360
throat

1897
01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:36,560
and uh i was starting to gag and bleed

1898
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:38,480
it felt kind of like she wanted to go up

1899
01:14:41,669 --> 01:14:40,159
my nasal cavities

1900
01:14:45,149 --> 01:14:41,679
well it was choking me and i was

1901
01:14:48,390 --> 01:14:45,159
starting to bleed and she pulled it out

1902
01:14:51,270 --> 01:14:48,400
telepathically she said

1903
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:51,280
we don't mean you no harm but i was

1904
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:53,040
thinking you know

1905
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:56,480
lady the harm's done and

1906
01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:58,560
she pulled this out and i was bleeding

1907
01:15:03,430 --> 01:15:00,000
and all

1908
01:15:05,510 --> 01:15:03,440
and uh she silenced

1909
01:15:06,709 --> 01:15:05,520
that big ugly one because i was fixing

1910
01:15:10,310 --> 01:15:06,719
to leave there

1911
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:10,320
if i could he come back over

1912
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:13,520
grabbed me by the left arm again gave me

1913
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:16,080
one more injection while i was on board

1914
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:17,120
the ship

1915
01:15:21,830 --> 01:15:20,159
to settle me down then she

1916
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:21,840
kind of backed up out of the way a

1917
01:15:27,110 --> 01:15:24,000
little bit

1918
01:15:29,430 --> 01:15:27,120
and that's when um

1919
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:29,440
she made a little mumbling sound like an

1920
01:15:33,110 --> 01:15:31,360
alligator mating call

1921
01:15:36,790 --> 01:15:33,120
that you'd hear down here and it just

1922
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:36,800
travels all over the water the vibration

1923
01:15:43,110 --> 01:15:40,320
and he jumped up and come and grabbed us

1924
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:43,120
and picked me up and escorted me out to

1925
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:44,239
shield

1926
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:47,280
and back to where we were originally

1927
01:15:50,550 --> 01:15:48,560
picked up

1928
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:50,560
and i was standing with my arms

1929
01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:52,560
stretched out facing the water and i

1930
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:54,320
couldn't put them down

1931
01:15:58,790 --> 01:15:56,560
and charlie was on his hands knees and

1932
01:16:02,709 --> 01:15:58,800
he got up

1933
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:02,719
and uh said you okay son you okay

1934
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:05,360
well by then it was all over so it

1935
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:07,199
wasn't no need to panic

1936
01:16:10,470 --> 01:16:09,120
he said let's sit down here and talk a

1937
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:10,480
minute

1938
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:12,880
so we pulled up a log sat down on the

1939
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:15,040
pier and was talking

1940
01:16:19,270 --> 01:16:17,199
and uh he said well we need to let

1941
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:19,280
somebody know of course back in they

1942
01:16:23,590 --> 01:16:20,560
didn't have

1943
01:16:25,590 --> 01:16:23,600
cell phones or computers

1944
01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:25,600
and i said no we don't need to let

1945
01:16:28,870 --> 01:16:27,120
nobody know

1946
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:28,880
i'm going to get up in the morning i'm

1947
01:16:34,390 --> 01:16:31,040
going to work that's going to be the end

1948
01:16:36,550 --> 01:16:34,400
of it charlie and you do the same thing

1949
01:16:39,350 --> 01:16:36,560
this is kind of where charlie and i had

1950
01:16:42,470 --> 01:16:39,360
her splitting on all this

1951
01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:42,480
he said okay so we got a

1952
01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:46,000
went to the car well on his side of the

1953
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:48,000
car it was my car but on his

1954
01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:50,800
side the passenger side the window had

1955
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:52,480
shattered in place

1956
01:16:57,430 --> 01:16:55,679
and when we opened the door it fell out

1957
01:16:58,870 --> 01:16:57,440
and i sat there and tried to crank that

1958
01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:58,880
little rambler

1959
01:17:02,229 --> 01:17:01,199
and wound on the battery should have run

1960
01:17:04,790 --> 01:17:02,239
down

1961
01:17:06,310 --> 01:17:04,800
but it didn't finally got it going it

1962
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:06,320
was running rough

1963
01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:09,520
and we left well when we pulled out i

1964
01:17:13,189 --> 01:17:10,080
noticed

1965
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:13,199
a car that was there was still there

1966
01:17:18,390 --> 01:17:16,480
but i wasn't taking no time to visit

1967
01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:18,400
so we left and was going back to the

1968
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:24,229
some kind of little curb store over

1969
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:26,080
there i had a pay phone

1970
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:28,320
charlie said stop here let me make a

1971
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:29,360
call

1972
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:32,640
wife tell her we was a little late

1973
01:17:37,590 --> 01:17:34,560
coming in

1974
01:17:39,110 --> 01:17:37,600
so i pulled up we neither one had didn't

1975
01:17:41,189 --> 01:17:39,120
change a nickel but

1976
01:17:43,270 --> 01:17:41,199
he did manage to find a couple of

1977
01:17:46,709 --> 01:17:43,280
nickels under his seat

1978
01:17:48,630 --> 01:17:46,719
he went to uh the pay phone

1979
01:17:51,590 --> 01:17:48,640
and i didn't know it was calling kessler

1980
01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:51,600
air force base at the time

1981
01:17:56,830 --> 01:17:54,800
and they told him to talk to the local

1982
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:56,840
sheriff's department or local law

1983
01:18:00,790 --> 01:17:58,800
enforcement

1984
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:00,800
and i still didn't know all this was

1985
01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:03,120
going on so he'd come back to the car

1986
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:06,480
hunted another nickel put in the phone

1987
01:18:10,830 --> 01:18:08,800
he called all the jackson county

1988
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,840
sheriff's department here in passpagula

1989
01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:12,960
mississippi

1990
01:18:17,510 --> 01:18:15,120
they said y'all stay right there i know

1991
01:18:19,669 --> 01:18:17,520
what they was thinking because

1992
01:18:21,910 --> 01:18:19,679
plus i had already talked to the man

1993
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:21,920
that answered the phone

1994
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:26,400
since then so uh

1995
01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:28,960
anyway they showed up and of course i

1996
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:30,560
was the one driving

1997
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:32,480
they shined a little flashlight in the

1998
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:33,920
car asked me to step

1999
01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:37,360
out charlie sit down like a big possum

2000
01:18:44,070 --> 01:18:40,400
and uh i stepped out

2001
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:44,080
he said uh follow this light with your

2002
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:46,080
eyes so i kind of followed that little

2003
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:46,960
light

2004
01:18:52,149 --> 01:18:49,840
he said now here's what i want you to do

2005
01:18:55,990 --> 01:18:52,159
i want you to

2006
01:18:58,870 --> 01:18:56,000
uh get on one leg bend your head back

2007
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:58,880
close your eyes jump up and down and

2008
01:19:01,669 --> 01:19:00,239
touch your nose

2009
01:19:03,270 --> 01:19:01,679
you wanted to see if you were drinking

2010
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:03,280
obviously yeah

2011
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:05,040
and i said hell man i couldn't do that

2012
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:06,640
if i was drunk

2013
01:19:13,830 --> 01:19:10,960
much less sober but anyhow i took all

2014
01:19:17,189 --> 01:19:13,840
the little sobriety tests

2015
01:19:20,870 --> 01:19:17,199
he uh said look

2016
01:19:23,590 --> 01:19:20,880
you don't appear to be drinking anything

2017
01:19:25,430 --> 01:19:23,600
why don't you get back in your car y'all

2018
01:19:28,390 --> 01:19:25,440
come to the shelf department

2019
01:19:30,229 --> 01:19:28,400
and we'll take your statement so that's

2020
01:19:31,990 --> 01:19:30,239
what i've done you know by then you

2021
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:32,000
didn't want to try to outrun the law

2022
01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:34,400
they had my tag number now

2023
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:37,440
drove back to the sheriff's department

2024
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:39,679
went in they took charlie in one room

2025
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:42,480
and took me in another room

2026
01:19:46,630 --> 01:19:44,640
and they was interviewing us they were

2027
01:19:48,630 --> 01:19:46,640
taping them interviews now

2028
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:48,640
then and i didn't know they was taping

2029
01:19:52,790 --> 01:19:51,280
that part then they put us in a room

2030
01:19:54,709 --> 01:19:52,800
together

2031
01:19:55,830 --> 01:19:54,719
and while we was in there i noticed one

2032
01:19:58,870 --> 01:19:55,840
of them walked in

2033
01:20:01,189 --> 01:19:58,880
and kind of looked in the drawer and

2034
01:20:01,910 --> 01:20:01,199
he must have turned on the tape recorder

2035
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:01,920
yeah

2036
01:20:07,270 --> 01:20:05,280
turned around and walked out well

2037
01:20:09,270 --> 01:20:07,280
then me and charlie was talking about

2038
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:09,280
what happened

2039
01:20:16,709 --> 01:20:13,840
and uh a few minutes

2040
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:16,719
the sheriff come up and he must have

2041
01:20:20,629 --> 01:20:17,360
went

2042
01:20:23,669 --> 01:20:20,639
got this tape and and the sheriff fred

2043
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:23,679
diamond said look

2044
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,910
i want to talk more about this but y'all

2045
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:31,199
tired

2046
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:34,719
we know you're not drinking go home

2047
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:37,360
go to bed and i'll see y'all tomorrow

2048
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:39,120
well i didn't really think they'd come

2049
01:20:44,229 --> 01:20:40,800
out to the shipyard

2050
01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:44,239
so i took them at the word i went home

2051
01:20:48,390 --> 01:20:46,880
took all my clothes off back in they had

2052
01:20:50,310 --> 01:20:48,400
paper bags

2053
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:50,320
put them all in a paper bag because they

2054
01:20:54,870 --> 01:20:52,000
was bloody

2055
01:20:56,870 --> 01:20:54,880
and i remember a long time ago my mother

2056
01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:56,880
used to wash me with bleach when we'd

2057
01:21:01,910 --> 01:20:59,120
get poison ivy or something

2058
01:21:03,750 --> 01:21:01,920
so i thought bleach would cure all there

2059
01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:03,760
was a gallon of bleach on the back of

2060
01:21:08,070 --> 01:21:05,040
the tub

2061
01:21:10,229 --> 01:21:08,080
i turned the shower on got a little damp

2062
01:21:11,110 --> 01:21:10,239
poured that whole gallon of bleach over

2063
01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:11,120
rubbed it in

2064
01:21:17,910 --> 01:21:14,480
oh and it burned oh it did

2065
01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:17,920
it was terrible so

2066
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:20,560
i got my shower in the bleach then i got

2067
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:21,760
out of the shop

2068
01:21:25,270 --> 01:21:23,760
slipped on some clothes picked up my

2069
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:25,280
little paper bag

2070
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:27,360
which that was a mistake then i should

2071
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:29,520
have kept it but they didn't have dna

2072
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:30,560
back in

2073
01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:33,520
yeah so i carried it out and put it in

2074
01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:35,040
the dumpster

2075
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:36,719
went in there and tried to go to sleep

2076
01:21:39,350 --> 01:21:38,800
but i couldn't sleep with all that going

2077
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:39,360
on

2078
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:42,480
like that and uh

2079
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:44,400
got up the next morning charlie was

2080
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:47,040
sitting there i said you ready for work

2081
01:21:50,470 --> 01:21:48,880
i didn't know what he told blanche or

2082
01:21:52,470 --> 01:21:50,480
not so i didn't want to sit down and

2083
01:21:55,910 --> 01:21:52,480
have to hear it

2084
01:21:57,030 --> 01:21:55,920
he said yeah let's go so we was on our

2085
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:57,040
way to work

2086
01:22:01,189 --> 01:21:59,679
and uh when we got to work i did notice

2087
01:22:05,750 --> 01:22:01,199
one thing

2088
01:22:08,950 --> 01:22:05,760
they had all these telescoping tv trucks

2089
01:22:10,629 --> 01:22:08,960
and they had the uh uplinks on them

2090
01:22:12,229 --> 01:22:10,639
straight up in the air so they could

2091
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:12,239
upgrade to a satellite

2092
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:15,520
and you know spread the good news i

2093
01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:16,800
guess

2094
01:22:22,550 --> 01:22:19,840
but i didn't realize if this was normal

2095
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:22,560
or something the shipyard was doing

2096
01:22:29,350 --> 01:22:26,000
or even what it was so we brassed in

2097
01:22:30,709 --> 01:22:29,360
and went inside it wasn't just a few

2098
01:22:32,709 --> 01:22:30,719
minutes

2099
01:22:33,990 --> 01:22:32,719
they called our name on the speaker to

2100
01:22:37,510 --> 01:22:34,000
come in

2101
01:22:39,990 --> 01:22:37,520
and the owner of the shipyard he said um

2102
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:40,000
luke fellas we cannot conduct business

2103
01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:41,600
like this you're gonna have to give a

2104
01:22:47,830 --> 01:22:43,760
news relief

2105
01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:47,840
i said oh shugs i said no well

2106
01:22:51,990 --> 01:22:49,360
charlie's the one gonna have to get the

2107
01:22:53,590 --> 01:22:52,000
news really well charlie and i had done

2108
01:22:55,669 --> 01:22:53,600
talked about i didn't want to be

2109
01:22:59,750 --> 01:22:55,679
involved

2110
01:23:01,030 --> 01:22:59,760
so he the owner of the shipyard offered

2111
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:01,040
his attorney

2112
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:04,320
to come in and give a uh help charlie

2113
01:23:07,990 --> 01:23:04,960
with a

2114
01:23:10,070 --> 01:23:08,000
press release so they could get back on

2115
01:23:14,470 --> 01:23:10,080
their phones and all

2116
01:23:17,669 --> 01:23:14,480
so he they made up a press release joe

2117
01:23:21,110 --> 01:23:17,679
clemento was the attorney

2118
01:23:24,149 --> 01:23:21,120
and uh it went from there

2119
01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:24,159
then the sheriff showed up he said i got

2120
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:28,560
to thinking last night about diseases

2121
01:23:33,110 --> 01:23:31,199
radiation and all that y'all need to go

2122
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:33,120
to the hospital

2123
01:23:38,149 --> 01:23:36,400
so dr bosco which is still alive and i

2124
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:38,159
i think phillips trying to get a

2125
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:41,360
statement from him right now

2126
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,080
but uh dr bosco did the medical exam

2127
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:48,719
he looked at her punch her marks on her

2128
01:23:51,830 --> 01:23:50,000
own

2129
01:23:54,229 --> 01:23:51,840
checked her favor you know just round

2130
01:23:56,310 --> 01:23:54,239
about stuff did a little blood work

2131
01:24:00,830 --> 01:23:56,320
he said well i don't think you know

2132
01:24:05,990 --> 01:24:03,189
uh

2133
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:06,000
but y'all do need to go to kiesler and

2134
01:24:10,149 --> 01:24:08,400
get a radiation test

2135
01:24:12,470 --> 01:24:10,159
well the sheriff said well i'm going to

2136
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:12,480
drive them there

2137
01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:15,280
keiser was about 30 miles from there

2138
01:24:18,790 --> 01:24:16,320
well at the time

2139
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:18,800
charlie talked to him they didn't show

2140
01:24:24,390 --> 01:24:21,360
no interest in nothing

2141
01:24:26,790 --> 01:24:24,400
so they drove us up to the docks the

2142
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:26,800
docks told everybody to stay in the car

2143
01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:29,679
for me and charlie to get out they

2144
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:32,320
scanned us with something

2145
01:24:37,110 --> 01:24:34,400
not a guidel counter but wanted things

2146
01:24:39,910 --> 01:24:37,120
to detect radiation

2147
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:39,920
and decided that we really didn't have

2148
01:24:45,270 --> 01:24:42,880
that much radiation i had a little bit

2149
01:24:46,629 --> 01:24:45,280
but that came from me working in an oil

2150
01:24:49,510 --> 01:24:46,639
field

2151
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:49,520
uh handling these little radiation

2152
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:50,480
tablets

2153
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:53,840
uh to go in these tools to calibrate

2154
01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:55,360
them holes

2155
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:58,880
so when they got through he all clear

2156
01:25:02,709 --> 01:25:00,480
he said now they want to see you in the

2157
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:02,719
back office

2158
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:05,040
well here we go walking down the hall

2159
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:07,360
one of them escorting us

2160
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:09,040
they opened the office that was the

2161
01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:11,520
longest walk they opened that office

2162
01:25:15,030 --> 01:25:12,719
back there

2163
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:15,040
and it must have been a hundred people

2164
01:25:18,950 --> 01:25:15,920
in there

2165
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:18,960
it was a military brass

2166
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:21,199
every police chief from the three lower

2167
01:25:26,790 --> 01:25:22,560
counties

2168
01:25:29,830 --> 01:25:26,800
uh ever patrolling

2169
01:25:30,790 --> 01:25:29,840
a lot of the patrolmen down there so

2170
01:25:34,229 --> 01:25:30,800
they walked in

2171
01:25:38,709 --> 01:25:34,239
they said we're going to do an interview

2172
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:38,719
and they all did i was kind of afraid to

2173
01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:39,600
lie but i

2174
01:25:43,110 --> 01:25:41,360
still wasn't going to put myself out

2175
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:43,120
there on the ramp

2176
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:45,600
because i didn't want no publicity they

2177
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:46,400
got through

2178
01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:48,400
just as nice as they could be they said

2179
01:25:52,390 --> 01:25:50,239
y'all can go

2180
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:52,400
so we walked back out got in a patrol

2181
01:26:02,070 --> 01:25:53,520
car

2182
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:02,080
uh sheriff fred diamond said that uh

2183
01:26:07,270 --> 01:26:04,400
there was somebody wanting to see us for

2184
01:26:10,629 --> 01:26:07,280
us to be sure and see him before we left

2185
01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:10,639
and that was dr heineck and dr harter

2186
01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:14,560
back at the office so they took us in

2187
01:26:21,830 --> 01:26:18,080
and dr heineck interviewed me first

2188
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:21,840
dr harter interviewed charlie

2189
01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:25,040
then we switched places and

2190
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:29,920
uh but i felt comfortable around dr

2191
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:30,880
heineck

2192
01:26:35,030 --> 01:26:33,120
it was kind of like talking to family

2193
01:26:36,149 --> 01:26:35,040
and i didn't know how my family was

2194
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:36,159
taking this

2195
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,239
i knew news is bro but uh

2196
01:26:46,070 --> 01:26:42,960
i i just come straight out with dr

2197
01:26:48,310 --> 01:26:46,080
heineck and talk to him

2198
01:26:49,510 --> 01:26:48,320
so he said hang around till in the

2199
01:26:52,149 --> 01:26:49,520
morning

2200
01:26:54,149 --> 01:26:52,159
so we done we hung around went back up

2201
01:26:56,950 --> 01:26:54,159
there in the morning

2202
01:26:59,110 --> 01:26:56,960
and uh he was all upset because the

2203
01:27:01,830 --> 01:26:59,120
police department didn't

2204
01:27:02,830 --> 01:27:01,840
treat the place where this landed like a

2205
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:02,840
crime

2206
01:27:07,830 --> 01:27:05,840
scene and he said where are you going to

2207
01:27:10,470 --> 01:27:07,840
be the next few days

2208
01:27:12,390 --> 01:27:10,480
so i'm going to be home you know i

2209
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:12,400
hadn't talked to my family i hadn't seen

2210
01:27:17,430 --> 01:27:13,840
how they're doing

2211
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:17,440
i got to go home so he gave me his card

2212
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:19,280
with his phone number

2213
01:27:25,350 --> 01:27:22,880
and told me to call him if i

2214
01:27:27,350 --> 01:27:25,360
needed anything wanted anything wanted

2215
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:27,360
to talk about anything

2216
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:30,400
said okay so i left and went home

2217
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:34,639
well my family never asked me about

2218
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:37,840
this and it was all over the news

2219
01:27:45,270 --> 01:27:44,310
fiancee at the time i was gonna marry

2220
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:45,280
november tonight

2221
01:27:50,870 --> 01:27:48,880
she never asked me so i never talked

2222
01:27:51,910 --> 01:27:50,880
about it i just clammed up and didn't

2223
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:51,920
say nothing about

2224
01:28:00,229 --> 01:27:56,239
it so i went 48 years without talking

2225
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:00,239
46 years without talking about this

2226
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:03,600
to my family my friends and that's where

2227
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:04,560
uh

2228
01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:07,920
phillip my wife and phillip was want me

2229
01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:09,440
to do a book

2230
01:28:12,470 --> 01:28:12,159
now she didn't know phillip at the time

2231
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:12,480
but

2232
01:28:16,629 --> 01:28:14,719
phillip had called me and said look this

2233
01:28:20,310 --> 01:28:16,639
is your legacy

2234
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:20,320
and a way to open up with it put it in

2235
01:28:23,750 --> 01:28:21,520
writing

2236
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:23,760
so that's when i decided to do it i said

2237
01:28:28,229 --> 01:28:25,600
now look phil

2238
01:28:30,310 --> 01:28:28,239
one thing i don't want nothing in this

2239
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:30,320
book edited

2240
01:28:36,629 --> 01:28:33,600
no words corrected

2241
01:28:39,510 --> 01:28:36,639
what it is is what it is yeah and if

2242
01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:39,520
people don't like it i don't care

2243
01:28:46,229 --> 01:28:43,360
because i mean we great on that yeah

2244
01:28:48,550 --> 01:28:46,239
yeah phillips good good like that and uh

2245
01:28:50,950 --> 01:28:48,560
he's been grateful of the connection

2246
01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:50,960
um i still hear that from him which is

2247
01:28:54,629 --> 01:28:51,920
is nice

2248
01:28:56,550 --> 01:28:54,639
um i want to go let's see we we can take

2249
01:29:00,390 --> 01:28:56,560
calls but it seems like there's so much

2250
01:29:03,110 --> 01:29:00,400
uh to to to talk about in this

2251
01:29:04,790 --> 01:29:03,120
um again going back to the train i'm at

2252
01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:04,800
the transcript right script right now

2253
01:29:09,830 --> 01:29:06,719
which actually is in the show notes for

2254
01:29:12,390 --> 01:29:09,840
um those of you listening and

2255
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:12,400
i'll have that link also over on youtube

2256
01:29:16,709 --> 01:29:13,040
um

2257
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,750
charlie talks about what you sounded

2258
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,040
like you were talking about

2259
01:29:24,070 --> 01:29:23,440
looked like a deck of cards is that what

2260
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:24,080
he called

2261
01:29:27,910 --> 01:29:26,800
that look something like an eyeball the

2262
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:27,920
same thing

2263
01:29:32,310 --> 01:29:30,639
well i've often wondered about that see

2264
01:29:34,310 --> 01:29:32,320
charlie and i never really said

2265
01:29:36,149 --> 01:29:34,320
and talk much just that i didn't want

2266
01:29:39,189 --> 01:29:36,159
everybody to know

2267
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,199
and but from what i've seen

2268
01:29:43,350 --> 01:29:42,000
his we had a sketch artist at the

2269
01:29:46,229 --> 01:29:43,360
shipyard

2270
01:29:48,390 --> 01:29:46,239
and he drawed a camera looking deal said

2271
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:48,400
it looked like an eyeball

2272
01:29:53,350 --> 01:29:51,360
but uh you know that's all i know about

2273
01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:53,360
what charlie had seen

2274
01:29:58,070 --> 01:29:56,080
but he was in he was in another room so

2275
01:30:00,149 --> 01:29:58,080
he may have been scanned by something

2276
01:30:02,870 --> 01:30:00,159
different than your skin

2277
01:30:04,870 --> 01:30:02,880
or whatever whatever that thing was that

2278
01:30:08,070 --> 01:30:04,880
came down from the ceiling

2279
01:30:09,669 --> 01:30:08,080
yeah does he remember the you talked

2280
01:30:12,550 --> 01:30:09,679
about the female

2281
01:30:13,350 --> 01:30:12,560
you know with the long fingers and that

2282
01:30:16,310 --> 01:30:13,360
whole

2283
01:30:17,110 --> 01:30:16,320
uncomfortable experience did he also

2284
01:30:20,310 --> 01:30:17,120
talk about

2285
01:30:22,629 --> 01:30:20,320
seeing the same female type being

2286
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:22,639
he didn't to me now i don't know if he

2287
01:30:25,110 --> 01:30:24,320
might have talked to somebody on the

2288
01:30:28,390 --> 01:30:25,120
show

2289
01:30:31,510 --> 01:30:28,400
now he did describe the big ugly ones

2290
01:30:34,709 --> 01:30:31,520
yeah right matter of fact him

2291
01:30:36,709 --> 01:30:34,719
and that sketch artist larry flint

2292
01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:36,719
got together and draw the big ugly when

2293
01:30:41,750 --> 01:30:39,360
it looks just like him

2294
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:41,760
yeah i don't know if this is it or or

2295
01:30:45,669 --> 01:30:42,480
not but

2296
01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:45,679
but you you don't remember now uh

2297
01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:48,480
charlie even right then he was talking

2298
01:30:51,750 --> 01:30:49,600
about

2299
01:30:53,030 --> 01:30:51,760
the conical things but he didn't focus

2300
01:30:56,390 --> 01:30:53,040
on it like

2301
01:30:58,149 --> 01:30:56,400
like he did after but uh you don't remem

2302
01:30:59,750 --> 01:30:58,159
you don't recall that when the thing

2303
01:31:01,590 --> 01:30:59,760
the three beings that came out of the

2304
01:31:03,430 --> 01:31:01,600
craft when the craft opened up

2305
01:31:04,950 --> 01:31:03,440
and they floated over to you this is one

2306
01:31:06,950 --> 01:31:04,960
thing i don't think you mentioned

2307
01:31:11,110 --> 01:31:06,960
that it was like they floated like a

2308
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:13,990
and and you like floated and he

2309
01:31:17,110 --> 01:31:15,360
describes that when

2310
01:31:19,430 --> 01:31:17,120
even when the sheriff is out of the room

2311
01:31:22,070 --> 01:31:19,440
and the secret tape he talks about

2312
01:31:23,669 --> 01:31:22,080
being floated and carried around like he

2313
01:31:26,629 --> 01:31:23,679
weighs nothing

2314
01:31:27,590 --> 01:31:26,639
you know yeah you'd figure it would hurt

2315
01:31:29,669 --> 01:31:27,600
you know

2316
01:31:32,470 --> 01:31:29,679
of course i didn't weighed much back in

2317
01:31:34,229 --> 01:31:32,480
130 pounds

2318
01:31:36,390 --> 01:31:34,239
but you would think it would break your

2319
01:31:38,629 --> 01:31:36,400
arm just pick you up by yarn but it was

2320
01:31:41,270 --> 01:31:38,639
no pain whatsoever

2321
01:31:42,629 --> 01:31:41,280
and floated right over the top of that

2322
01:31:45,189 --> 01:31:42,639
marsh grass

2323
01:31:46,870 --> 01:31:45,199
do you do you remember were you upright

2324
01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:46,880
when that was happening or were you

2325
01:31:53,350 --> 01:31:50,320
actually you were i was so

2326
01:31:56,149 --> 01:31:53,360
you were yes sir

2327
01:31:57,510 --> 01:31:56,159
and uh i i can't even imagine this whole

2328
01:31:59,910 --> 01:31:57,520
experience and

2329
01:32:01,270 --> 01:31:59,920
and uh of course in the transcript it

2330
01:32:03,270 --> 01:32:01,280
says how

2331
01:32:04,629 --> 01:32:03,280
you know how you're you're a mess

2332
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:04,639
basically you're

2333
01:32:08,550 --> 01:32:06,960
you you don't know how you're gonna get

2334
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,560
through this thing and and

2335
01:32:12,470 --> 01:32:10,639
no one will ever believe you you know i

2336
01:32:14,550 --> 01:32:12,480
mean did that

2337
01:32:15,590 --> 01:32:14,560
feeling has that feeling been with you a

2338
01:32:17,590 --> 01:32:15,600
long time like

2339
01:32:18,790 --> 01:32:17,600
how could anyone believe this actually

2340
01:32:21,350 --> 01:32:18,800
happened

2341
01:32:23,510 --> 01:32:21,360
been with me 46 years and that's the

2342
01:32:25,270 --> 01:32:23,520
reason

2343
01:32:28,229 --> 01:32:25,280
i tell you what i was gonna do i was

2344
01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:28,239
gonna do that book with phillip

2345
01:32:32,790 --> 01:32:30,560
and i was gonna buy 10 copies and give

2346
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:32,800
them to my family and friends

2347
01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:34,800
and let them read about it in there so i

2348
01:32:37,270 --> 01:32:36,400
wouldn't have to sit down and talk to

2349
01:32:39,830 --> 01:32:37,280
them

2350
01:32:41,030 --> 01:32:39,840
i was really uncomfortable talking about

2351
01:32:44,310 --> 01:32:41,040
all this

2352
01:32:47,669 --> 01:32:44,320
yeah yeah it's it's such a

2353
01:32:50,950 --> 01:32:47,679
unbelievable story now time goes by

2354
01:32:53,990 --> 01:32:50,960
and um this

2355
01:32:56,149 --> 01:32:54,000
goes pretty public

2356
01:32:57,110 --> 01:32:56,159
you've been interviewed a ton of times

2357
01:32:59,189 --> 01:32:57,120
and there's actually

2358
01:33:02,229 --> 01:32:59,199
they're going to be making or possibly

2359
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:02,239
be making a movie is that right

2360
01:33:08,629 --> 01:33:05,360
well anything's possible right now

2361
01:33:12,229 --> 01:33:08,639
i try to stay out of all

2362
01:33:14,870 --> 01:33:12,239
the screenplays all i know we got a

2363
01:33:15,590 --> 01:33:14,880
what philip calls a graphic novel coming

2364
01:33:17,350 --> 01:33:15,600
out

2365
01:33:19,430 --> 01:33:17,360
and i've been taking a little interest

2366
01:33:21,189 --> 01:33:19,440
in that because it's been pretty good

2367
01:33:23,510 --> 01:33:21,199
and the artwork's good

2368
01:33:25,750 --> 01:33:23,520
matter of fact you showed some artwork

2369
01:33:28,629 --> 01:33:25,760
only when first come in

2370
01:33:29,590 --> 01:33:28,639
jason gleaves who's been on this show in

2371
01:33:31,350 --> 01:33:29,600
the past

2372
01:33:33,110 --> 01:33:31,360
i made this diorama i'm going to pull it

2373
01:33:36,470 --> 01:33:33,120
up for the youtube i could put that in

2374
01:33:38,070 --> 01:33:36,480
the show notes as well little

2375
01:33:39,510 --> 01:33:38,080
you can see it up there on youtube

2376
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:39,520
that's the diorama

2377
01:33:45,830 --> 01:33:42,560
and uh and the three beings now

2378
01:33:46,709 --> 01:33:45,840
um when i think it's when charlie's

2379
01:33:48,790 --> 01:33:46,719
describing

2380
01:33:49,910 --> 01:33:48,800
the beings he said he didn't know if

2381
01:33:53,750 --> 01:33:49,920
they had one leg or

2382
01:33:55,270 --> 01:33:53,760
two is that did you did you get a any

2383
01:33:58,470 --> 01:33:55,280
type of look at them at all

2384
01:34:01,669 --> 01:33:58,480
that you can remember yeah pretty good

2385
01:34:03,750 --> 01:34:01,679
uh looked like their legs didn't have a

2386
01:34:05,590 --> 01:34:03,760
seam down them

2387
01:34:06,790 --> 01:34:05,600
you know where they could separate but

2388
01:34:08,950 --> 01:34:06,800
i'm

2389
01:34:13,590 --> 01:34:08,960
you know i don't see why they would need

2390
01:34:18,229 --> 01:34:16,790
which is so bizarre

2391
01:34:19,590 --> 01:34:18,239
i can't even imagine what was going

2392
01:34:20,870 --> 01:34:19,600
through your mind when when they started

2393
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:20,880
floating

2394
01:34:25,030 --> 01:34:23,600
uh coming toward you i mean i just can't

2395
01:34:28,070 --> 01:34:25,040
even

2396
01:34:30,950 --> 01:34:28,080
imagine and when you actually saw them

2397
01:34:32,390 --> 01:34:30,960
coming toward you you had the river

2398
01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:32,400
right there where you couldn't go

2399
01:34:35,350 --> 01:34:33,600
anywhere right i mean

2400
01:34:38,149 --> 01:34:35,360
you could have gone to the side maybe or

2401
01:34:40,390 --> 01:34:38,159
something no there was no abandoned ship

2402
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:40,400
yard and there was metal and concrete

2403
01:34:43,750 --> 01:34:41,600
and all in it

2404
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:43,760
i looked around but i just didn't have

2405
01:34:51,030 --> 01:34:47,040
time to figure an escape route

2406
01:34:52,790 --> 01:34:51,040
oh so um i think what i'm going to do

2407
01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:52,800
i mean i have a lot of questions to ask

2408
01:34:57,590 --> 01:34:54,400
you but i think i'm going to let the

2409
01:35:00,950 --> 01:34:57,600
listeners call in and

2410
01:35:02,790 --> 01:35:00,960
i'm going to bring bill in and we are

2411
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:02,800
going to take calls the number

2412
01:35:11,189 --> 01:35:08,960
um is 855-472-5483

2413
01:35:12,229 --> 01:35:11,199
and uh give us give a call ask your

2414
01:35:14,709 --> 01:35:12,239
questions

2415
01:35:16,149 --> 01:35:14,719
uh calvin's here it's your opportunity

2416
01:35:18,470 --> 01:35:16,159
and um

2417
01:35:20,709 --> 01:35:18,480
i hope that bill bill you're all set uh

2418
01:35:22,310 --> 01:35:20,719
just put in chat that you were all set

2419
01:35:26,149 --> 01:35:22,320
for the calls

2420
01:35:27,109 --> 01:35:26,159
um yep he is all right so that line the

2421
01:35:28,870 --> 01:35:27,119
lines are open

2422
01:35:32,870 --> 01:35:28,880
uh anyone can call in again that number

2423
01:35:36,629 --> 01:35:32,880
is 855-472-5483

2424
01:35:39,350 --> 01:35:36,639
um so you ended up getting married i met

2425
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:39,360
i met wayne that um wonderful woman i've

2426
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,239
really uh

2427
01:35:43,750 --> 01:35:42,400
enjoyed you know spending time with you

2428
01:35:48,550 --> 01:35:43,760
in arizona

2429
01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:48,560
and um what was her

2430
01:35:52,870 --> 01:35:51,440
did you talk to her about it you know

2431
01:35:55,109 --> 01:35:52,880
you said you didn't when she was your

2432
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:55,119
fiance but when you got married is this

2433
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:56,480
something that would come up over the

2434
01:36:00,310 --> 01:35:58,639
years or is is this something you've had

2435
01:36:02,950 --> 01:36:00,320
to bear all on your own basically

2436
01:36:04,790 --> 01:36:02,960
never never came up from none of my

2437
01:36:08,629 --> 01:36:04,800
family or friends

2438
01:36:09,990 --> 01:36:08,639
wow they knew how uh i felt about things

2439
01:36:13,350 --> 01:36:10,000
and they respected my

2440
01:36:16,229 --> 01:36:13,360
privacy the only

2441
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:16,239
time i started talking about with them

2442
01:36:20,070 --> 01:36:17,040
was uh

2443
01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:20,080
when that book came out and i did give

2444
01:36:24,310 --> 01:36:21,199
them all a

2445
01:36:27,910 --> 01:36:24,320
book oh you did you did do that yeah i

2446
01:36:30,550 --> 01:36:27,920
ordered 10 books and i handed them out

2447
01:36:31,189 --> 01:36:30,560
so wow all right well we have people

2448
01:36:34,390 --> 01:36:31,199
already

2449
01:36:39,510 --> 01:36:34,400
uh we have uh mike from cincinnati

2450
01:36:43,109 --> 01:36:39,520
uh welcome to the show mike

2451
01:36:43,119 --> 01:36:47,750
uh bill it's not coming through

2452
01:36:54,709 --> 01:36:51,350
hello hi mikey there yes

2453
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:54,719
oh good a few how you doing mike

2454
01:37:01,109 --> 01:36:57,760
uh you got a question for our guest

2455
01:37:03,430 --> 01:37:01,119
yes uh martin and calvin great show

2456
01:37:04,709 --> 01:37:03,440
and uh calvin you're a brave man i

2457
01:37:08,229 --> 01:37:04,719
appreciate what you've

2458
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:08,239
done my question is i know charlie hicks

2459
01:37:11,109 --> 01:37:08,719
and

2460
01:37:13,270 --> 01:37:11,119
i believe went on the ufo circuit for a

2461
01:37:17,030 --> 01:37:13,280
while speaking and everything and

2462
01:37:18,149 --> 01:37:17,040
you you is money to make a movie about

2463
01:37:19,750 --> 01:37:18,159
this

2464
01:37:22,550 --> 01:37:19,760
i was just wondering if you saw the

2465
01:37:24,950 --> 01:37:22,560
movie that he made or had made

2466
01:37:26,790 --> 01:37:24,960
and uh if you agree with what was shown

2467
01:37:28,470 --> 01:37:26,800
in that movie i can't remember the name

2468
01:37:30,149 --> 01:37:28,480
of it i saw it a long time ago but

2469
01:37:33,189 --> 01:37:30,159
that's my question

2470
01:37:34,229 --> 01:37:33,199
and i'll i'll hang up so other folks can

2471
01:37:36,149 --> 01:37:34,239
call thank you all

2472
01:37:38,310 --> 01:37:36,159
thanks for the call john but to answer

2473
01:37:38,790 --> 01:37:38,320
your question i never knew charlie made

2474
01:37:42,550 --> 01:37:38,800
a

2475
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:42,560
movie on it i'd like to see it

2476
01:37:47,669 --> 01:37:46,000
oh you never saw that well uh well

2477
01:37:49,189 --> 01:37:47,679
let's see the way these calls are coming

2478
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:49,199
and that was mike i'm sorry

2479
01:37:53,270 --> 01:37:50,880
mike from cincinnati i guess that's who

2480
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:53,280
that was uh mike if you want to call

2481
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:54,800
back on that line

2482
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:57,040
and uh leave information with bill i'd

2483
01:38:01,270 --> 01:37:58,080
appreciate it

2484
01:38:03,109 --> 01:38:01,280
um on where uh that uh

2485
01:38:05,990 --> 01:38:03,119
uh calvin and actually i would like to

2486
01:38:06,790 --> 01:38:06,000
see that too uh so now we have john from

2487
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:06,800
california

2488
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:10,080
i'm not sure did i call him john before

2489
01:38:14,070 --> 01:38:11,679
we have john from california on the line

2490
01:38:17,750 --> 01:38:14,080
john yes

2491
01:38:20,550 --> 01:38:17,760
hi welcome to the show thank you uh

2492
01:38:21,350 --> 01:38:20,560
so much um like to ask calvin a quick

2493
01:38:24,709 --> 01:38:21,360
question

2494
01:38:26,950 --> 01:38:24,719
if that's okay oh yeah yeah

2495
01:38:28,229 --> 01:38:26,960
hey calvin uh uh i see a lot of

2496
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:28,239
similarities and

2497
01:38:32,629 --> 01:38:31,280
and your uh experience with the travis

2498
01:38:34,870 --> 01:38:32,639
walton case i know you've probably been

2499
01:38:37,669 --> 01:38:34,880
told that a million times

2500
01:38:39,270 --> 01:38:37,679
uh have you ever been able to uh in the

2501
01:38:41,350 --> 01:38:39,280
past get together with travis and

2502
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:41,360
compare notes or did you see

2503
01:38:44,950 --> 01:38:43,520
some similarities and what happened to

2504
01:38:48,390 --> 01:38:44,960
you all

2505
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:48,400
uh yes sir we got together we both had

2506
01:38:54,709 --> 01:38:51,600
booths at this uh

2507
01:38:56,709 --> 01:38:54,719
uh conference in phoenix

2508
01:38:58,390 --> 01:38:56,719
so i got to meet travis to spend a

2509
01:39:00,870 --> 01:38:58,400
little time with him

2510
01:39:02,470 --> 01:39:00,880
and he seems like a good down-to-earth

2511
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:02,480
person

2512
01:39:09,189 --> 01:39:06,400
i don't know but we didn't compare notes

2513
01:39:11,109 --> 01:39:09,199
on what we had seen

2514
01:39:13,510 --> 01:39:11,119
when you both seemed very truthful to me

2515
01:39:13,990 --> 01:39:13,520
i i applaud you for coming forward and

2516
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:14,000
uh

2517
01:39:17,350 --> 01:39:15,679
can't wait to read the book and if they

2518
01:39:18,229 --> 01:39:17,360
ever do make a movie about it i'll be

2519
01:39:20,310 --> 01:39:18,239
i'll be uh

2520
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:20,320
anxious to watch that best of luck to

2521
01:39:23,430 --> 01:39:21,360
you all and uh

2522
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:23,440
uh really appreciate you coming forward

2523
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:25,280
thanks thanks so much calvin

2524
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:27,840
thank you mark all right great try to

2525
01:39:31,830 --> 01:39:29,280
stay warm

2526
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:31,840
all right we have robin from colorado

2527
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:33,040
robin

2528
01:39:48,550 --> 01:39:46,000
colorado

2529
01:39:50,470 --> 01:39:48,560
actually her call dropped but maybe all

2530
01:39:52,470 --> 01:39:50,480
right how about johnny cobb the guy who

2531
01:39:57,189 --> 01:39:52,480
wrote the song

2532
01:40:00,390 --> 01:39:57,199
north carolina you bet he's cold now too

2533
01:40:03,510 --> 01:40:00,400
yeah johnny are you there

2534
01:40:05,590 --> 01:40:03,520
yes i am hey johnny uh

2535
01:40:08,390 --> 01:40:05,600
so hey great song uh thank you for

2536
01:40:10,390 --> 01:40:08,400
letting me play that on the break

2537
01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:10,400
oh no thank you and calvin for playing

2538
01:40:14,149 --> 01:40:12,080
that we i really do appreciate it

2539
01:40:15,990 --> 01:40:14,159
you guys sound great and look great and

2540
01:40:16,709 --> 01:40:16,000
i hope sometime this year if there's

2541
01:40:18,390 --> 01:40:16,719
another conference

2542
01:40:20,310 --> 01:40:18,400
i can get a chance to take a picture of

2543
01:40:21,910 --> 01:40:20,320
all both of you guys

2544
01:40:23,430 --> 01:40:21,920
that'd be awesome do you have a question

2545
01:40:24,870 --> 01:40:23,440
i know you talked to calvin

2546
01:40:27,350 --> 01:40:24,880
uh but do you have a question for him

2547
01:40:30,709 --> 01:40:28,629
you know what every time i hear his

2548
01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:30,719
story i learned something new and i just

2549
01:40:34,790 --> 01:40:32,000
want everybody to know calvin is the

2550
01:40:38,310 --> 01:40:34,800
real deal he's a gentleman

2551
01:40:42,149 --> 01:40:38,320
and a wonderful person yeah

2552
01:40:45,990 --> 01:40:42,159
thank you johnny i agree johnny

2553
01:40:47,669 --> 01:40:46,000
and and keep making the music thank you

2554
01:40:49,189 --> 01:40:47,679
uh you'll be you and cal will be the

2555
01:40:50,550 --> 01:40:49,199
first two people here our new music when

2556
01:40:53,030 --> 01:40:50,560
we create it

2557
01:40:54,790 --> 01:40:53,040
all right take care excellent take care

2558
01:40:58,550 --> 01:40:54,800
now

2559
01:41:03,270 --> 01:40:58,560
okay all right goodbye uh we have

2560
01:41:08,070 --> 01:41:03,280
simone uh simone from arizona

2561
01:41:15,510 --> 01:41:11,430
are you there simone yes sir

2562
01:41:19,109 --> 01:41:15,520
hi there welcome to the show hi

2563
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:19,119
hi you have a question for our guest

2564
01:41:23,910 --> 01:41:22,080
yes i do hello kelvin um i'd like to ask

2565
01:41:27,830 --> 01:41:23,920
you if and this is regarding

2566
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:27,840
um ufo witness episode episode six

2567
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,840
you mentioned having an implant or the

2568
01:41:33,590 --> 01:41:31,600
possibility of it

2569
01:41:35,270 --> 01:41:33,600
have you ever had any type of scan or

2570
01:41:38,390 --> 01:41:35,280
mri done to

2571
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:38,400
rectify that here

2572
01:41:44,950 --> 01:41:41,679
uh within the past two months

2573
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:44,960
i had a mr mri

2574
01:41:51,189 --> 01:41:48,320
done and i had mentioned for them to

2575
01:41:53,590 --> 01:41:51,199
take a little time and look

2576
01:41:55,510 --> 01:41:53,600
and they didn't find nothing in course

2577
01:41:56,070 --> 01:41:55,520
it could have been removed by the end it

2578
01:42:01,109 --> 01:41:56,080
might not

2579
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:01,119
never been one in there

2580
01:42:05,910 --> 01:42:03,440
but that's that's something i'm still

2581
01:42:09,189 --> 01:42:05,920
looking into

2582
01:42:11,990 --> 01:42:10,629
anything else simone do you have any

2583
01:42:13,430 --> 01:42:12,000
other questions that's a that was a

2584
01:42:15,750 --> 01:42:13,440
really good question because i forgot

2585
01:42:18,229 --> 01:42:15,760
all about that

2586
01:42:19,270 --> 01:42:18,239
all right thank you bye-bye thank you

2587
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:19,280
thank you

2588
01:42:23,030 --> 01:42:21,920
mike called back and uh he thinks the

2589
01:42:25,990 --> 01:42:23,040
movie's

2590
01:42:27,510 --> 01:42:26,000
name that uh charlie hixson did about

2591
01:42:28,390 --> 01:42:27,520
the pasca cool incident was called

2592
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:28,400
beyond

2593
01:42:31,910 --> 01:42:29,760
contacts we're going to have to check

2594
01:42:34,870 --> 01:42:31,920
that out i'll take a look

2595
01:42:36,390 --> 01:42:34,880
i'll take it thank you yeah thanks for

2596
01:42:39,510 --> 01:42:36,400
calling back mike we have uh

2597
01:42:39,910 --> 01:42:39,520
robin she's back robin uh welcome to the

2598
01:42:44,870 --> 01:42:39,920
show

2599
01:42:45,270 --> 01:42:44,880
hi hi hi i was just wondering if calvin

2600
01:42:47,750 --> 01:42:45,280
had

2601
01:42:49,590 --> 01:42:47,760
a completely different paradigm shift

2602
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:49,600
after this that happened to him

2603
01:42:56,310 --> 01:42:53,040
hmm well i don't know what a paradigm

2604
01:42:59,990 --> 01:42:58,310
the whole the whole way of life your

2605
01:43:04,950 --> 01:43:00,000
whole way of thinking

2606
01:43:07,189 --> 01:43:04,960
oh absolutely i went into uh

2607
01:43:09,189 --> 01:43:07,199
went into my own little world and that's

2608
01:43:10,629 --> 01:43:09,199
where i kind of stayed until the book

2609
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:10,639
come out

2610
01:43:13,830 --> 01:43:12,480
and the only reason it came out is

2611
01:43:16,950 --> 01:43:13,840
because of martin

2612
01:43:18,790 --> 01:43:16,960
and philip and my wife

2613
01:43:21,590 --> 01:43:18,800
and that was one of the best things

2614
01:43:23,830 --> 01:43:21,600
that's happened to me

2615
01:43:25,590 --> 01:43:23,840
oh that's amazing and i also if it's

2616
01:43:27,830 --> 01:43:25,600
okay if i have another question oh yeah

2617
01:43:31,030 --> 01:43:27,840
absolutely sure

2618
01:43:33,910 --> 01:43:31,040
um did you

2619
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:33,920
by any chance after this experience

2620
01:43:39,350 --> 01:43:36,320
become

2621
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:39,360
more psychic in a way you never wanted

2622
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:40,000
to

2623
01:43:50,470 --> 01:43:47,840
uh there's times when you're

2624
01:43:52,310 --> 01:43:50,480
and i think everybody goes through this

2625
01:43:54,790 --> 01:43:52,320
when you go somewhere and you

2626
01:43:58,070 --> 01:43:54,800
feel like you've been there before you

2627
01:44:01,350 --> 01:43:58,080
even know the outlay of the town kind of

2628
01:44:04,149 --> 01:44:01,360
but um i i don't think any more than

2629
01:44:07,109 --> 01:44:04,159
anybody else has

2630
01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:07,119
hmm all right well thank you so much and

2631
01:44:10,790 --> 01:44:08,719
i look forward to reading your book

2632
01:44:12,629 --> 01:44:10,800
thank you martin thanks all right thanks

2633
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:12,639
for calling back

2634
01:44:17,750 --> 01:44:15,840
yeah hi i know yeah we had a

2635
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:17,760
ton of callers all calling at the same

2636
01:44:21,270 --> 01:44:19,360
time now the lines are open

2637
01:44:22,709 --> 01:44:21,280
again again that number is eight five

2638
01:44:24,470 --> 01:44:22,719
five four seven two

2639
01:44:26,470 --> 01:44:24,480
five four eight three keep keep them

2640
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:26,480
coming in uh

2641
01:44:30,470 --> 01:44:29,520
uh calvin you uh mentioned on that

2642
01:44:32,550 --> 01:44:30,480
episode

2643
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:32,560
and i believe we might have talked about

2644
01:44:37,510 --> 01:44:34,560
this when we're in arizona

2645
01:44:39,030 --> 01:44:37,520
but you had you had another something

2646
01:44:41,270 --> 01:44:39,040
else happened to you do you want to talk

2647
01:44:44,229 --> 01:44:41,280
about that

2648
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:44,239
well we don't have much time to get into

2649
01:44:48,470 --> 01:44:45,040
it

2650
01:44:53,590 --> 01:44:48,480
but back in 1983

2651
01:44:59,750 --> 01:44:56,550
i had another abduction case and

2652
01:45:02,950 --> 01:44:59,760
actually got into a physical

2653
01:45:04,229 --> 01:45:02,960
fight with the one that abducted me but

2654
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:04,239
i had to go

2655
01:45:14,950 --> 01:45:12,629
uh i had a friend that had been wanting

2656
01:45:18,229 --> 01:45:14,960
me for years to

2657
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:18,239
get a pr uh talk to me and

2658
01:45:24,870 --> 01:45:22,000
he was with a tv station a local station

2659
01:45:26,790 --> 01:45:24,880
and i would never do it but when he came

2660
01:45:28,070 --> 01:45:26,800
over i told him a little bit of what

2661
01:45:30,629 --> 01:45:28,080
happened

2662
01:45:32,870 --> 01:45:30,639
he said hold on a minute i've been

2663
01:45:34,390 --> 01:45:32,880
looking this stuff up and i know bud

2664
01:45:37,350 --> 01:45:34,400
hopkins

2665
01:45:38,709 --> 01:45:37,360
and uh let's go see him well bud was

2666
01:45:42,070 --> 01:45:38,719
doing a uh

2667
01:45:48,550 --> 01:45:45,830
florida tampa florida so we loaded up

2668
01:45:50,950 --> 01:45:48,560
it's not for 12 hours from the house

2669
01:45:52,790 --> 01:45:50,960
went to tampa he went in there and

2670
01:45:56,149 --> 01:45:52,800
talked to bud

2671
01:45:57,830 --> 01:45:56,159
and uh told him who i was i wouldn't go

2672
01:45:59,270 --> 01:45:57,840
in and talk to him i didn't want to be

2673
01:46:02,390 --> 01:45:59,280
recognized

2674
01:46:05,030 --> 01:46:02,400
so i told him who i was

2675
01:46:07,510 --> 01:46:05,040
and he said well y'all go to my room

2676
01:46:09,990 --> 01:46:07,520
i'll be through here in a few minutes

2677
01:46:12,870 --> 01:46:10,000
so bud gave him the key to the room we

2678
01:46:16,870 --> 01:46:12,880
went there and just let herself in

2679
01:46:22,470 --> 01:46:16,880
well when he got there he talked me into

2680
01:46:27,750 --> 01:46:25,189
and he did and we went back and then i

2681
01:46:30,790 --> 01:46:27,760
followed up here not long ago

2682
01:46:32,790 --> 01:46:30,800
with all kathleen

2683
01:46:33,910 --> 01:46:32,800
okay these gold years ain't quite as

2684
01:46:37,590 --> 01:46:33,920
golden as what they

2685
01:46:37,990 --> 01:46:37,600
appear to be no no but if you need a

2686
01:46:40,070 --> 01:46:38,000
break

2687
01:46:41,990 --> 01:46:40,080
anytime you just you're welcome to take

2688
01:46:45,030 --> 01:46:42,000
a break it's no problem at all

2689
01:46:47,350 --> 01:46:45,040
um we have derek called in and

2690
01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:47,360
we only have five minutes left anyway so

2691
01:46:52,629 --> 01:46:49,840
derek welcome to the show

2692
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:52,639
hey thanks so much god great show and um

2693
01:46:55,189 --> 01:46:53,440
great to

2694
01:46:56,950 --> 01:46:55,199
meet you calvin appreciate your story

2695
01:47:00,390 --> 01:46:56,960
and

2696
01:47:03,270 --> 01:47:00,400
interesting yeah it's um something that

2697
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:03,280
marvel to marvel at and i try to keep it

2698
01:47:07,590 --> 01:47:04,560
quick the question i had

2699
01:47:09,430 --> 01:47:07,600
was um i know um i think michael stratt

2700
01:47:11,590 --> 01:47:09,440
was on the show before he was good at

2701
01:47:14,629 --> 01:47:11,600
detailing or good historian

2702
01:47:16,790 --> 01:47:14,639
and bring up various cases but um

2703
01:47:17,669 --> 01:47:16,800
i've been an independent researcher for

2704
01:47:19,990 --> 01:47:17,679
quite some time

2705
01:47:21,030 --> 01:47:20,000
and yours is very outstanding from the

2706
01:47:24,149 --> 01:47:21,040
standpoint of the

2707
01:47:27,270 --> 01:47:24,159
beings and i was wondering um

2708
01:47:29,270 --> 01:47:27,280
within you trying to get uh acquire some

2709
01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:29,280
other answers associated with

2710
01:47:32,790 --> 01:47:31,920
your experience has there been any other

2711
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:32,800
um

2712
01:47:36,310 --> 01:47:34,719
close similarities to any other people

2713
01:47:37,830 --> 01:47:36,320
that have had a similar type of

2714
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:37,840
experience with that type of being

2715
01:47:42,629 --> 01:47:40,080
because it was really outstanding in

2716
01:47:44,950 --> 01:47:42,639
how they looked and operated in being

2717
01:47:47,430 --> 01:47:44,960
robotic and i haven't heard

2718
01:47:49,189 --> 01:47:47,440
anything else similar to that so i was

2719
01:47:53,430 --> 01:47:49,199
just curious what that was concerned

2720
01:47:56,550 --> 01:47:53,440
and i can take it i'm not for sure

2721
01:47:57,270 --> 01:47:56,560
if i've seen anything any closer or not

2722
01:47:58,790 --> 01:47:57,280
because

2723
01:48:00,390 --> 01:47:58,800
here lately i've been kind of

2724
01:48:02,629 --> 01:48:00,400
concentrating

2725
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,639
on mine but what i'd like to do is come

2726
01:48:09,270 --> 01:48:04,400
back with martin

2727
01:48:12,149 --> 01:48:09,280
and there's another episode in 1983

2728
01:48:14,709 --> 01:48:12,159
and i really want to get into that

2729
01:48:15,669 --> 01:48:14,719
adduction there now it tells a lot more

2730
01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:15,679
detail

2731
01:48:19,430 --> 01:48:18,239
it just takes about an hour and a half

2732
01:48:21,830 --> 01:48:19,440
to get into it

2733
01:48:25,669 --> 01:48:21,840
we'll definitely do that in the future

2734
01:48:26,470 --> 01:48:25,679
one of the uh the and i'm going to pull

2735
01:48:28,390 --> 01:48:26,480
the uh

2736
01:48:29,830 --> 01:48:28,400
no more calls at this point i do i do

2737
01:48:31,270 --> 01:48:29,840
appreciate the people that called in

2738
01:48:34,629 --> 01:48:31,280
thank you for doing that

2739
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:34,639
uh calvin one one of the things uh

2740
01:48:41,510 --> 01:48:38,000
he he just mentioned um

2741
01:48:42,470 --> 01:48:41,520
there was another case where the beings

2742
01:48:44,709 --> 01:48:42,480
they thought

2743
01:48:45,990 --> 01:48:44,719
floated and that's the ariel school

2744
01:48:49,189 --> 01:48:46,000
incident that happened in

2745
01:48:50,790 --> 01:48:49,199
south africa in 1994 or five i can't

2746
01:48:52,950 --> 01:48:50,800
remember the year exactly

2747
01:48:54,870 --> 01:48:52,960
but they actually kind of said that they

2748
01:48:58,070 --> 01:48:54,880
they look like they're floating but

2749
01:49:01,510 --> 01:48:58,080
it also brought me to this question

2750
01:49:02,709 --> 01:49:01,520
the female being of the four beings that

2751
01:49:05,189 --> 01:49:02,719
you encountered

2752
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:05,199
was that being actually floating as well

2753
01:49:10,870 --> 01:49:07,119
in the craft do you remember that

2754
01:49:12,790 --> 01:49:10,880
no uh i've often said you know

2755
01:49:15,669 --> 01:49:12,800
she looked real normal with the

2756
01:49:18,070 --> 01:49:15,679
exception of them two middle fingers

2757
01:49:19,589 --> 01:49:18,080
just like a little redneck country girl

2758
01:49:21,189 --> 01:49:19,599
from down here in mississippi and

2759
01:49:24,229 --> 01:49:21,199
louisiana

2760
01:49:26,310 --> 01:49:24,239
matter of fact that's yeah okay i

2761
01:49:28,390 --> 01:49:26,320
i'd like to talk about her because i

2762
01:49:30,390 --> 01:49:28,400
i've never really did i i'm sorry for

2763
01:49:33,750 --> 01:49:30,400
interrupting a little bit there but

2764
01:49:35,669 --> 01:49:33,760
how about hair and and and dress and

2765
01:49:38,870 --> 01:49:35,679
things like that

2766
01:49:42,229 --> 01:49:38,880
she had uh hair

2767
01:49:45,430 --> 01:49:42,239
it was uh we have a artist

2768
01:49:46,470 --> 01:49:45,440
phillip and i have an artist that is

2769
01:49:49,910 --> 01:49:46,480
doing a real

2770
01:49:50,629 --> 01:49:49,920
pro picture owner and we've worked

2771
01:49:53,750 --> 01:49:50,639
together

2772
01:49:56,950 --> 01:49:53,760
on it several times it's just not

2773
01:49:57,750 --> 01:49:56,960
really right right now but i'll be glad

2774
01:50:01,030 --> 01:49:57,760
when that

2775
01:50:03,189 --> 01:50:01,040
photo gets gets here but she she was

2776
01:50:05,910 --> 01:50:03,199
normal as far as i was concerned

2777
01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:05,920
i told my wife if she hadn't if i'd been

2778
01:50:09,830 --> 01:50:08,080
somewhere drinking

2779
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:09,840
back when i was younger i would have

2780
01:50:14,550 --> 01:50:12,800
asked her out on a date

2781
01:50:15,990 --> 01:50:14,560
but she would not after she put her

2782
01:50:19,189 --> 01:50:16,000
fingers down here through no

2783
01:50:22,550 --> 01:50:19,199
not after she kind of gagged me there

2784
01:50:26,310 --> 01:50:22,560
um so color hair was it blonde brown

2785
01:50:27,510 --> 01:50:26,320
red it was kind of a i want to say a

2786
01:50:29,350 --> 01:50:27,520
bluish blonde

2787
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:29,360
it's really hard to just ahead of your

2788
01:50:34,229 --> 01:50:31,040
time yeah yeah

2789
01:50:35,750 --> 01:50:34,239
uh and and uh clothing do you remember

2790
01:50:39,430 --> 01:50:35,760
that

2791
01:50:42,790 --> 01:50:39,440
yeah she had on a jumpsuit

2792
01:50:44,550 --> 01:50:42,800
and uh as far as breasts

2793
01:50:46,149 --> 01:50:44,560
she wasn't really blessed with none of

2794
01:50:49,910 --> 01:50:46,159
them that i could see

2795
01:50:50,629 --> 01:50:49,920
so okay maybe that's not usable on their

2796
01:50:59,510 --> 01:50:50,639
uh

2797
01:51:01,350 --> 01:50:59,520
of the show and i definitely want to get

2798
01:51:03,589 --> 01:51:01,360
you back in we'll talk about that

2799
01:51:04,870 --> 01:51:03,599
uh that whole thing that happened in

2800
01:51:06,470 --> 01:51:04,880
1983.

2801
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:06,480
you were on your boat though right or

2802
01:51:09,189 --> 01:51:07,760
something like that isn't that how it

2803
01:51:12,470 --> 01:51:09,199
started i was on my boat

2804
01:51:13,430 --> 01:51:12,480
fishing yeah and uh that's when it all

2805
01:51:15,109 --> 01:51:13,440
started

2806
01:51:17,109 --> 01:51:15,119
yeah well unfortunately we're out of

2807
01:51:20,310 --> 01:51:17,119
time calvin thank you so much

2808
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:20,320
thank you martin all right all right

2809
01:51:23,830 --> 01:51:22,800
talk soon and take care of yourself all

2810
01:51:27,510 --> 01:51:23,840
right

2811
01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:27,520
next week miguel

2812
01:51:32,790 --> 01:51:30,880
um romero red pill junkie

2813
01:51:35,030 --> 01:51:32,800
and thank you so much for uh watching

2814
01:51:36,550 --> 01:51:35,040
the show and participating

2815
01:51:38,709 --> 01:51:36,560
calling in all that stuff i really

2816
01:51:51,940 --> 01:51:38,719
appreciate it and remember everyone to